What is our 4T contest about? Can we see it differently?

[Marypoza]

(02-10-2017, 09:25 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-10-2017, 08:31 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-10-2017, 05:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-10-2017, 05:28 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-10-2017, 04:45 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: What we have is something like that, in my opinion. The neo-liberals are the owner class and those who favor it. The proletariat are those who suffer under trickle-down Reaganomics = neoliberalism. Trump is primarily a neo-liberal defending the interests of his class. Democrats and liberals usually favor policies that help the proletariat, and they work, whereas the neo-liberal pro-upper class policies do not work, except for the upper class, perhaps. That's red vs. blue.

Anti-globalization is a mixed brew. It is easy to see through the deceptive rhetoric about globalism. It is basically the right values: we are all one people on one planet, and we need to build bridges and not walls. National borders are just lines on a map.

The genuine liberal point of view (as opposed to the Trump demagoguery) says globalization can be a good thing, except that multi-national neo-liberal corporations don't care about the people or any nation's interests. They use globalization to create "free trade," which essentially means bringing advanced nations down to the level of poor nations so that companies can send jobs and factories abroad where there is cheap labor and no regulations or taxes. That is good for business, but bad for workers in the advanced countries.

The deception which Trump has pulled is to appeal to workers on the trade issue, while at the same time putting forth neo-liberalism trickle-down economics on steroids that will hurt workers. That's why Trump and Sanders really share very little in common; perhaps only the trade issue. So that website is wrong.

Anti-globalization is also another code word for xenophobia and racism. Fear of immigrants and refugees; calls for walls and stronger borders. Stoking fears that a national, traditional civilization is being infiltrated and ruined by dangerous furiners. Anti one-world/new world order, anti-UN conspiracy theories and frenzies. This is what Trump and Brexit and Le Pen are all about. It is nothing worth supporting; it must be opposed.

Globalization in this sense is the liberal, positive alternative. Not that there should be no borders to regulate the speed at which immigration occurs. Globalization does not mean no borders at all. It means we recognize that we are all humans on one planet, and global solutions and institutions are needed in many fields. It means more of a global federation in which nation-states do not become the basis for warlike nationalism, prejudice and narrow-mindedness, which have caused nine world wars and many smaller wars in the last many hundreds of years.

The saeculum is doing its work. After a lifetime, people tend to forget what happened in the last go-round. Nationalists and anti-globalists today forget that their ideas led to World Wars I and II, the worst disaster in human history. That's why the EU evolved. But, people forget. Forget they're hiding....

-- yeah but l think what the author is saying is we need to reach out to the antiglobalist Trumpistas, reach out & form a big antiglobalist movement. Just like Marx said the workers of the world should unite

We need to take a stronger stand on the trade issue, and make clear that the blue side and progressives support the interests of workers; and yes that's worldwide. Not an anti-globalist movement, because that is pure Trumpism; combining justified opposition to corporate "free trade" with xenophobic and racism nationalism and neo-liberal policies. Anti-globalist is not the right meme or slogan at all if we want to create the movement that will help the people.

Justice, peace, freedom, equality of opportunity for all, fair trade and fair policies. That's positive. Anti neo-liberal corporatism; that's the opposition meme.

--yeah you got a point there. The name of the movement s/b positive. Ppl don't realize the importance of words & framing their intentions. I went to a workshop about the Secret once & they said that was a big reason why the antiwar movement failed bcuz it was antiwar. So yeah you're right. The name needs to be positive. The antiwar movement needs to rename itself too

That's the peace movement.

--yeah except they don't call themselves that.

Eric Wrote:But yes, there needs to be a positive name. And "anti-globalism" as a meme needs to have the nationalism and xenophobia taken out. So what is the positive name for the movement against corporate global neo-liberalism? We'll need to work on that.

Fair trade is part of it. And equality. But the right-wingers can say that equality means everyone is equal financially, regardless of what they do or how lazy they are. So we say equality of opportunity. Not exactly spellbinding.... And Democratic socialism is pretty good, but socialism has a bad rep. We don't want the government to own and run everything. Justice and fairness, but folks like Rags don't like SJWs. So, what's the best name? I'm not sure.

-- economic justice, economic democracy, economic freedom. True Liberals (as opposed to neoliberals, who aren't really liberals @ all)  Or maybe just Fair Traders, as opposed to Free Traders to the bottom 

Something will catch on