07-15-2017, 08:32 PM
(07-15-2017, 07:22 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: To clarify, there are people on both sides willing to read and understand, including Eric. They just don't include you, who invariably substitutes straw men, probably because you don't even realize they are straw men.
For the last several pages on this thread, I have openly stated that I'm not the best person to state the red perspective. I've been trying to invite red people to state it. Instead, I get insult posts and the occasional bit of cryptic apparent nonsense. Lacking active red posters willing to make articulate statements of their world view, I have to go with the few posts available, such as Kinser's tribal morality. I don't believe in that, but I can understand it easy enough.
Can you respect Freedom from Want and UDHR 25 as worthy and moral objectives? Understand that I am speaking of UDHR 25's call for necessities such as food, shelter and medical care? Note, if you want blues to understand and respect red views, you might begin with an understanding and acknowledgment of some basic blue views.
What is the counter argument to positive rights such as Freedom from Want and HDHR 25? Can you be more articulate about the idea that positive and negative rights are inherently in conflict? If you are rejecting Kinser's tribal morality argument as a blue strawman, what is your argument or the argument of reds in general? Would you care to reject the tribal morality argument?
Not all extreme partisans of a particular color are identical. I can quite understand that you are not Kinser, and might believe or argue in different ways for vaguely similar goals. Therefore, attributing Kinser's angle to all reds probably isn't kosher. However, use of Kinser's opinion as one red perspective isn't a strawman. Sure, give me some alternatives that you think more main stream red.
Sure, when there are extreme partisans involved, there will be strawmen and perceived strawmen. I'm all in favor of shooting down strawmen. Point them out clearly enough that we can get off a clean shot.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.