06-15-2016, 07:15 PM
(06-15-2016, 02:38 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(06-15-2016, 02:31 PM)radind Wrote:(06-15-2016, 02:20 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:I will try to see what barna has posted.(06-15-2016, 02:07 PM)radind Wrote:(06-15-2016, 01:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Barna is not against homosexuality?The issue is your statement "It's not a long step from barna, to Verity Baptist Church, to Pulse nightclub June 5 2016.".
The statements from the phony 'pastor' are outrageous and EVIL.
No Christian with a Biblical worldview would make such a claim.
To associate anyone else with the Verity Baptist Church without any basis is terribly flawed.
Maybe I'm wrong and barna does not attribute moral prohibitions against homosexuality to a Biblical worldview. But you didn't answer the question. The issue is their view of gays and their behavior in relation to their religion.
If barna's view is that homosexuality is wrong, and Bible believers should agree, then that is part of the steps toward hate and murder.
It doesn't mean barna advocates hate and murder. It means that those views create the conditions for sick minds to take the next steps. As Pastor Jimenez did, and as Mateen acted it out.
It seems to me that your view has been, that religious believers should have the right to refuse service to gays getting married on the basis of conscience. And similar situations arise in regard to contraception and abortion. And you say, as I read you, that if religious believers are forced to serve gays, that is intolerance by seculars, and an attack on religious liberty by the dominant secular culture.
I understand the feeling of conscience. Sometimes the Obama administration has tried to accomodate it. But on balance I think allowing discrimination, and the idea that homosexuality is morally wrong, are steps toward intolerance and hate toward those who practice those lifestyles. That connection is clearly shown in Pastor Jimenez's remarks.
I don't agree at all with your view about the steps leading to hate and murder.
In my view each person is created in the image of God and there is no room or basis for hate.
It IS a step. Because some people like the pastor and Mateen feel that the penalty for doing "wrong" (e.g. homosexuality/sodomy) is or should be death. They simply ignore the idea that each person is created in the image of God, which should mitigate such doctrines.
The cure is to stop saying that being gay is wrong, in any way.
It may not be the right thing for you or me, but it may be the right thing for others. That is not moral relativism. It is moral decision, or moral intelligence.
Like Obama said, straight members of the army applauded gay members. We're all on one team.
I did a quick scan and could not find anything about Barna’s position on gays. As I mentioned earlier , my primary interest in barn.org is the polling they do and I have spent hardly any time on reading any of their other work.
Quote:https://www.barna.org/research/culture-m...2HqwJMrLEY
… "there appears to be a dichotomy at work among practicing Christians in America," Kinnaman continues. "Most believe that the Bible is the source of moral norms that transcend a person’s culture, and that those moral truths are absolute rather than relative to circumstances. Yet, at the same time, solid majorities ascribe to five of the six tenets of the new moral code. Such widespread cognitive dissonance—among both practicing Christians and Americans more generally—is another indicator of the cultural flux Barna has identified through the past two decades.”…
https://www.barna.org/about
… “Barna Group has carefully and strategically tracked the role of faith in America, developing one of the nation’s most comprehensive databases of spiritual indicators.”…
… whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)