The Maelstrom of Violence

[Bob Butler 54]

(07-09-2017, 04:46 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(07-07-2017, 09:18 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(07-03-2017, 10:23 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: When the left gets a win, they push further.  They got gay marriage, so now they're pushing to force people to participate and be supportive of gay marriage ceremonies even if that's against those people's religious beliefs.  They'll be pushing to force churches to perform the ceremonies next.

Truth be told, one can refuse to attend any marriage ceremony for any reason. The State cannot compel people to attend interfaith or interracial marriages, so if someone does not want to witness his pretty white daughter marrying some black man, one can avoid attending the marriage even if being unable to stop it.  I know of a preacher who will not perform a marriage between people who have cohabitated for at least a year of living separately. That is his standard. Churches can refuse to become venues for marriages of which they disapprove. I doubt that anyone expects Westboro Baptist Church to perform a same-sex marriage or the Church of Adolf Hitler to perform a marriage between an 'Aryan' and an 'Untermensch'. Were I a preacher I would refuse to participate in a marriage that looks exploitative or potentially destructive. Marriage between two people with a wide disparity of age creeps me out and suggests the potential for an exploitative relationship, and for practical reasons I would refuse to officiate a wedding involving two people who do not even speak the same language or a couple that has already had violence in their relationship.

So go to a civil authority which cannot discriminate against a marriage between someone 70 and someone 16 or shop around for clergy who will go along.  Oh, Warren Jeffs is no longer available?

You might wish that were the truth, but the State of Washington says otherwise.  The judgment in the Arlene's Flowers case says, "All goods, merchandise and services offered or sold to opposite sex couples shall be offered or sold on the same terms to same-sex couples, including but not limited to goods, merchandise and services for weddings and commitment ceremonies."  Since a florist usually delivers the flowers and often stays at the ceremony to take care of them, she is being forced to attend the ceremony.  The case obviously applies to photographers and caterers, who attend the ceremony and provide services.  Read it yourself here if you wish:

http://www.adfmedia.org/files/ArlenesFlo...mentAG.pdf

You might also want to check out the Civil Rights Act of 1964, a response to that Woolworth's lunch counter, among other things.  The act isn't an easy read, but the gist of it is that if you are providing goods or services to the public, you can't discriminate in providing said goods and services.  As time passes, as more forms of discrimination are recognized, they all come to share that same legal litmus test.

Now, in the case of the father of the white girl who is marrying a black guy, unless the father provides wedding goods or services, he can avoid the ceremony.  If he makes money providing wedding services to the public, he may have a problem if the daughter wants to make a scene.

Now, any preacher might declare most anything to be a sin.  If he declares providing a good or service a sin, he might run square into the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  Thus far, the courts have been with the Congress.  I don't blame the courts not wanting to get into the business of deciding whether an act is one of commerce, or of worship.  I don't think they want to have to decide whether he who declares the act a sin is performing a legitimate act of faith, practicing bigotry, or both.  No doubt the photography, catering and whatnot are acts of commerce, and that's generally how the courts are treating them.

Warren's claim that "They'll be pushing to force churches to perform the ceremonies next" seems like a conservative straw man. I haven't heard of this either being done or being pushed for. Banning discrimination, yes. Forcing clergymen to perform services? That is news to me.