01-14-2021, 08:07 PM
(01-14-2021, 06:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(01-14-2021, 03:34 PM)David Horn Wrote:(01-14-2021, 03:14 PM)mamabug Wrote: From my perspective, this is starting to get very scary. My stance on Jan 6th is the same as it was last week, and the weeks before that - violent groups exist on the fringes of both sides. Everyone is very good at looking at their side and saying 'well, that group doesn't really represent 95% of my side, they are just a distraction the other team uses.' I hear that from people justifying rioters burning down billions in property and killing over 30 people and I hear that from people justifying Charlottesville and the Capitol breach alike. When push comes to shove, they both usually start blaming 'provocateurs' and muttering about false flags.
The similarity of how groups think would be scary if it wasn't utterly predictable form a sociological behavior standpoint.
Anyway, the thing I have a very hard time believing is that elected government officials, especially at the national level, would go beyond the usual excuses and 'what-about-a-lism' to actively assisting and engaging in planning a violent assault *on themselves*.
That this is even part of the national conversation, especially without names or any proof furnished as part of the accusation, is the beginning of a dangerous path. Despite pretty much every national level Republican or Republican sympathizer in politics, media, and/or alternative media condemning the events of Jan 6th, the narrative being shaped is that not only were the perpetrators on the right, but all Republicans are evil people who either tacitly or actively support this.
Either the people making the accusation are irresponsible, they are so far into their bubble they legitimately are unable to see their colleagues as human, or they are making a cynical ploy to justify exclusion or outright removal of any Republican who stands in their way. I've read enough on this board to know some of you would be perfectly happy with that because you are also so far into your in-group and the crisis mindset that you have no problem with stomping all over half the country. From where I stand, this is what totalitarianism looks like.
There better be either a complete and public exoneration (including a censure of Rep. Sherrill for circulating this rumor in the first place) or a hell of a lot of proof for me to not see this as Democratic politicians acting in bad faith for the purposes of hurting people they disagree with.
Forgive my impassioned ranting, I've said all along it wasn't the events that alarmed me so much as the response and this is exactly what I mean. I never thought I would live in an America where one major party didn't just impugn the other but sought to convict them as traitors. How this doesn't end in bloodshed and terror is becoming increasingly something I can't see.
Nonsense. So far a first term Rep from Colorado is actively under investigation for posting the locations of leadership and senior staff in the middle of the assault. The FBI has her phone records. She also is one of the ones who refuse to use the screening process to enter the building and she refuses to be searched as well. She ran on the platform of guns ... period, and argues that she has a right to take one on the floor of Congress. If she's actually doing it, that's grounds for expulsion. As to Mikie Sherril, she merely reported what others reported to her, and security has acknowledged that "tours" were conducted on the 5th -- more to follow.
That's hell-and-gone from slander. Considering the recent events, it's within the bounds of duty.
Nonsense? You were pretty quick to call it nonsense. So there is an authoritarian/Reactive side to you after all. Do you usually respond to a decent poster with nonsense? You are in charge now. The Democrats are in charge now too. OK, its time to see how good of a manager/moderator you are, and its time to see how good of national leaders that the Democrats are too at the same time. So far, I'd give them an F.
We will need to know more about this insurrection. Were insiders in the federal government, including elected officials, complicit or neglectful? We may not know fully until investigations or trials are complete. Anybody who had any role in this insurrection that isn't innocent error must be removed from the responsibility and receive such sanctions as appropriate. For a breach of security not an innocent any Senator or Representative must be expelled; any staffer must be fired and blackballed; any Capitol Police officer or any employee of the House or Senate must be fired. This insurrection is pure disgrace. I have yet to be satisfied that insiders were involved. Lives of fellow Senators and Representatives as well as the dignity of Congress were put at risk.
Tours of the capital have been done, and I was in one while on a trip to a band contest. "My" Representative gave us a tour that even included a trip to the Congressional lunchroom. It was non-partisan. But I was a high-schooler between the freshman and sophomore year, and none of us were looking for any vulnerabilities of the Capitol.
Before the start of this year, any fictional story involving an attempt at a mass takeover of the Capitol would be cause for quick rejection by a literary agent. As the late author Leo Rosten put it, fiction must make sense and historical fact has no such obligation.
Just a reminder to everyone: the FBI may not have the prerogative to beat confessions out of people or get confessions by threatening family members, but it is very good at following money trails, phone logs, and travel itineraries -- and of course examining physical evidence. It is thus as effective as Nazi or Soviet secret police without the brutality.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.