Poll: Is Donald Trump the GC? And how does this effect your vote?
Yes, he is the GC, and I'm voting for him.
No he is not the GC, but I'm voting for him.
Yes he is the GC but I'm voting Democrat.
No he is not the GC but I'm voting Democrat.
Yes, he is the GC, but I'm voting Third Party
No, he is not the GC, but I'm voting Third Party
Yes, he is the GC but I'm not voting
No he is not the GC but I'm not voting
[Show Results]
 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Grey Champions and the Election of 2016
#23
(05-08-2016, 06:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I note that Romney recently warned the American People about demagogues, with Trump and Sanders being examples of demagogues.  I'm definitely with you more than Romney.  Trump and Saunders are going after the Establishment.  Trump has had a stronger impact, nigh on destabilizing the Republicans.  However, he seems to me to be working a personality cult thing, using the abundant anger at the main line Republicans more than presenting a true alternate vision.  To me Saunders has a more coherent platform / values set, but he looks to be falling short.  Either way, we've got the Establishment Romney fighting a rearguard action against something or other.  The status quo is becoming more and more recognizable as bankrupt.

Donald Trump contradicts himself at will without recognizing that incompatible promises ensures bad results. Bernie Sanders may be telling young Millennial adults exactly what they want to hear -- and may be showing what Millennial politicians will be offering America.

Quote:As for the core problem of capitalism, yes, I'd kind of like to see Marx's perspective or at least his terminology rehabilitated.  He identified the problems early and clearly.  Since then, implementation problems made his perspective anathema.  He identified the problems, but his results weren't ideal.  Thus, each generation has to identify the same problems using different verbiage.  Eisenhower spoke of the Military Industrial Complex.  The Hippies had trust issues with everyone over thirty.  The Occupy movement spoke of the one percent.  More recently it has become fashionable to speak of division of wealth.  To a great degree, all are railing against the same system of the wealthy, by the wealthy, for the wealthy.  Of all the various systems of verbiage and action attacking the problem, arguably Marx's followers were the most successful in attacking the capitalists (or whatever you want to call them) of their time.  Alas, they replaced them with something unsatisfactory.

Marxist terminology? We can all use that. He created much of the language of modern political science. His prescriptions for the way from poverty to plenty have proved very wrong. He may have explained better than anyone else what a world without scarcity is like. Clutter and excess are waste, and not needing those is itself wealth.

Quote:The problem is not in identifying capitalism and democracy as practiced currently as flawed.  The problem is building an agreement on something better that can be implemented and that works.  Trump rouses a good deal of emotion.  Sanders talks better policy from my perspective.  Seems like both are apt to fall short.

Sanders may be the closest thing to a successor of Eugene Debs. At some point Eugene V. Debs may be more relevant than Calvin Coolidge -- even if the capitalist elite prefers someone who lets them indulge the worst tendencies of the capitalist elite with impunity. [/quote]
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply


Messages In This Thread
What is a Grey Champion? - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-05-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: Grey Champions and the Election of 2016 - by pbrower2a - 05-08-2016, 08:20 PM
A Test of Theory - by Mikebert - 08-13-2016, 08:45 AM
RE: A Test of Theory - by Ragnarök_62 - 08-13-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: A Test of Theory - by Mikebert - 08-14-2016, 09:10 AM

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Presidential Election Predictive Cycle jleagans 1 1,679 08-17-2020, 06:36 PM
Last Post: jleagans
  Neither of the current major party candidates is the "Grey Champion". Einzige 50 38,620 11-21-2016, 09:32 AM
Last Post: 2Legit2Quit
  This may be the last presidential election dominated by Boomers and prior generations Dan '82 2 3,513 09-05-2016, 09:48 PM
Last Post: Warren Dew
  Being "Wide Awake" in 1856, getting "Woke" in 2016 Odin 0 2,494 09-02-2016, 04:36 PM
Last Post: Odin
  Article: The Ghosts of ’68 Haunt the Election of 2016 Odin 22 23,526 07-18-2016, 06:04 PM
Last Post: Anthony '58

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)