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Signs of a Dying Empire
#49
(09-29-2017, 11:32 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:
(09-23-2017, 10:28 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The election itself  is under investigation, and we may find how intense and effective the manipulation was.

We already know the primaries in that election was manipulated.  But it wasn't manipulated by the Russians of all people, rather the DNC manipulated their own primary elections because they wanted HRC.  Too bad that blew up in their face.

Neither clear not obvious, and possibly even counter-factual.



Quote:
Quote:If we ended up with Donald Trump as the result of such manipulation,

IF, and it is a big if--as in so big as to be on the level of absurd, the Russians manipulated the election one thing they wouldn't do is manipulate it in favor of Donald Trump.  HRC was guaranteed to cause economic and world wide chaos.  You seem to be under the mistaken impression that Trump is some sort of radical revolutionary when he is instead, like a proper Grey Champion, hearkening back to traditional Americana.

Yeah, sure -- a President in contempt withe the rule of law, and who has spite as a cornerstone of his policy.

Awful, awful, awful!


Quote:
Quote:then we probably have a Republican majority in the Senate as the result.

The GOP holding the senate was a foregone conclusion.  In case you haven't noticed the (Democratic) party has been shedding seats and governorship over the course of the past decade.

Reversibility is reality in democratic political systems -- but not under tyrannical systems like those of fascist and commie regimes.


Quote:
Quote:Donald Trump is unlike any prior President for running as a demagogue. He more resembles Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier in his techniques of getting elected than he resembles... well, Ronald Reagan. At least Ronald Reagan ran against a loud-mouth counterculture that Americans were getting sick of. Donald Trump ran against basic decencies.

Unlike Haiti, the US has a long tradition of democratic institutions.  As for the rest of this paragraph one man's demagogue is an other's truth teller.  I will say this though, Trump like Reagan ran against a loud mouth culture that Americans were getting sick of.

This election has shown that the age of a democratic tradition is no defense of democracy in a country in which many voters are pigs before whom pearls are cast.


Quote:
Quote:Sure it is going nowhere. Russian hacking (or attempted hacking) of the electoral process has been exposed.

Are you sure about that?  The vast majority of voting systems in the US have paper back ups.  What did the Russians do?  Put mind control drugs into the water and some how trick Americans into voting for a Strong Military, Strong Economy Nationalist?

In Michigan, the hackers may have gotten into the campaign apparatus of the Democrats, altering voter files so that Democratic efforts to turn out Clinton voters reached would-be Trump voters instead.


Quote:
Quote:We are finding that people in the Trump Administration and campaign apparatus show signs of co-ordination. When you look at the activities of Paul Man-o'-Fraud... someone so bad so close to the President hardly gives evidence of integrity.

The special prosecutor can't find anything so they are now going after potential financial crimes, which could be as simple as clerical errors in preparing a tax form.  There is no there there, which you would know if you Read drudge instead of watching MSDNC.

Or money laundering.



Quote:
Quote:If you see this acceptable because your idol won, then just think of how things go in 2020 if China or even India tries to interfere in our political process.

You mean that China or India might buy some facebook ads like the Russians are accused of?  I say let them.  Personally I don't give a shit, provided that the voting systems are kept on old-tech paper the election is unhackable, unless you plan on telling me that the Chinese Air Force or something is spraying mind control chem trails.

I don't want the electoral winner of my choosing winning with the aid of a foreign power, let alone due to collusion with a foreign power.


Quote:
Quote:Both countries have excellent intelligence services, and they have their agendas. I assure you that you would not like it if the Democrats won big in 2020 with the aid of an agency of foreign intelligence.

Since there is no evidence that any Russian involvement in the election was effective, assuming it actually happened (which the absence of evidence indicates it did not) I highly doubt that the Indians or Chinese would be as effective as the long practiced and highly competent FSB.  As for China and India having their own agendas, well yeah, everyone has an agenda.  What is your point, do you even have one or are you just busy running around chanting "Muh Russia" like Alphabet here.

Standard operating procedure by the Soviet Union in attempts to overthrow democratic systems (usually fledgling, or shaky after fascist times) is to sponsor politicians servile to the Soviet Union (in the 1940s, hard-line Stalinists), deluded fellow-travelers (Zdenek Fierlinger in Czechoslovakia, István Dobi in Hungary), or (if that is all that is available) politicians with severe faults of incompetence, corruption, or cruelty likely to create trouble for his own Party. Scandals? Provoking mass protests? Social rot? Economic hardship?

Well, Trump is incompetent, corrupt, and cruel, is he not?

I do not hate Russia. Russia has a glorious history of science and culture. I think the Russian language well worth the effort to learn.



Quote:Glorification of the Leader. Government of the Master Class, by the Master Class, and for the Master Class. Vilification of Americans based upon ethnicity and religion. Promotion of visceral attitudes with little concern for consequences.
Quote:You mean like how the Dims are openly praising Kim Jong-Un now?

Garbled even beyond your usual standard.

Quote:
Quote:He would have to reverse recent polling which has shown between 55% and 60% disapproval. (Yes it has improved for him a bit this week, I concede. But this said, we ordinarily expect people to outgrow the "double-dog-dare":

As I've said previously, polls without methodology is meaningless.  Furthermore, national polls are also pretty much meaningless.  In the Red States Daddy is seen as doing great and even the conservative democrats are starting to come round if they hadn't already.  After all those same polls said it was impossible for the President to become the president.

Yes, yes, yes. Almost every politician who ends up losing disparages the polls that show him behind the leader who eventually wins. Usually that disparagement of the polls fails. But Trump win, and, well, America is not as good a place to live as it was when Obama was president.


Quote:
Quote:For all his faults, most notably failing to address mass poverty, President Obama at least didn't offer any "double-dog dares", let alone "triple-dog dares". By 2020 we will want the President most similar to Barack Obama in agenda and temperament.

As someone who voted for Obama twice, you speak only for yourself.  My main fear is that Obama did such a poor job as president that not only is he the first black president, he will also be the last black president, or at least the only black president for some time to come.  I know you don't read the alternative media, or even leave your house (all that often, I assume you periodically must leave if only to go to the grocery) so I can understand that you don't realize that the left is in total collapse, but the last thing we need right now is a president like Barack Obama either in temperament (because Mitt Romney would do if it was just that) or in agenda (which means you might as well balkanize the country now and sell it piecemeal to the Europeans, Indians and Chinese).

No. The problem with Barack Obama and his inability to force Americans to confront mass poverty is that as a black man he might have been seen as using welfare as a sort of political patronage. I voted for Edwards in the 2008 primary because I knew that Obama could never get away with an aggressive campaign against mass poverty.

Last black President? Miscegenation will expand the black population if natural growth from families with black husbands and wives does not.

The Left is hardly monolithic. I can see different strands. I find Marxist analysis useful (if with my own modifications); for example, I see the post-scarcity society as something that Marx predicted first; he called it Communism. Paradoxically it may be capitalism that achieves Communism, and not the state-controlled Marxist-Leninist model.

We will need a President very different from Donald Judas Trump if we are to get a sane, workable government again.
We need someone with respect for the rule of law. We need someone free of personal corruption and has an agenda mature enough to avoid actions out of spite. We need someone with a moral compass. That could be a Lincoln-like or FDR-like Boomer. The second choice is a mature Reactive like Cleveland, Eisenhower, or Obama.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply


Messages In This Thread
Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-15-2017, 01:44 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by noway2 - 09-15-2017, 02:54 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-15-2017, 03:43 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-15-2017, 07:06 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-15-2017, 11:51 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-16-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 09-19-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Mikebert - 09-17-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-17-2017, 09:37 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-17-2017, 11:56 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-18-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by noway2 - 09-19-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-19-2017, 05:24 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-19-2017, 09:34 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-19-2017, 09:45 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-19-2017, 09:48 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-19-2017, 10:59 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-20-2017, 01:10 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by noway2 - 09-20-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 09-20-2017, 04:22 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by noway2 - 09-22-2017, 03:26 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 09-22-2017, 04:40 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 09-19-2017, 09:43 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-05-2017, 05:21 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 10-05-2017, 10:49 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-06-2017, 03:19 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 10-05-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 10-06-2017, 11:24 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 10-14-2017, 09:55 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 10-14-2017, 10:17 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 10-16-2017, 10:24 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-18-2017, 05:27 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 10-18-2017, 12:02 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-18-2017, 03:35 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 10-19-2017, 02:51 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-20-2017, 03:01 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 10-20-2017, 07:11 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 10-21-2017, 08:14 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 10-22-2017, 12:40 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 08-19-2018, 02:32 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 06-25-2019, 09:09 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 10-16-2017, 11:46 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-18-2017, 05:40 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-15-2017, 07:43 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-16-2017, 02:03 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-16-2017, 07:43 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-16-2017, 10:22 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-17-2017, 12:21 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-16-2017, 02:42 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Warren Dew - 09-16-2017, 05:15 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-19-2017, 12:51 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-20-2017, 05:27 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Ragnarök_62 - 09-20-2017, 05:51 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-20-2017, 08:27 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 09-21-2017, 09:28 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-22-2017, 05:09 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-22-2017, 05:16 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 09-23-2017, 08:41 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-23-2017, 10:28 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 11-30-2020, 03:37 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 09-21-2017, 10:01 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by noway2 - 09-22-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 09-22-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-22-2017, 05:17 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-29-2017, 11:32 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 10-02-2017, 03:07 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 09-30-2017, 12:01 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 10-02-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-07-2017, 09:02 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 10-09-2017, 06:10 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Galen - 10-14-2017, 07:44 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 10-14-2017, 09:13 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Kinser79 - 10-09-2017, 09:08 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 10-14-2017, 10:01 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by noway2 - 10-18-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 06-19-2018, 04:13 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 06-24-2019, 12:47 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 06-25-2019, 12:32 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 06-27-2019, 05:27 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Bill the Piper - 06-27-2019, 12:56 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 06-27-2019, 01:25 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 08-03-2021, 02:45 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 08-03-2021, 05:40 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by galaxy - 08-03-2021, 02:34 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 08-04-2021, 02:44 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 04-25-2022, 09:20 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-04-2022, 12:10 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by JasonBlack - 05-04-2022, 06:10 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-05-2022, 12:58 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 05-05-2022, 02:30 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-05-2022, 09:03 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by JasonBlack - 05-06-2022, 02:00 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 05-06-2022, 06:57 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 05-06-2022, 11:35 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by JasonBlack - 05-06-2022, 02:50 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 05-07-2022, 12:04 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-07-2022, 08:04 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 05-09-2022, 02:06 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 05-09-2022, 11:12 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-10-2022, 02:21 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 07-03-2022, 07:02 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-06-2022, 10:33 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by JasonBlack - 05-06-2022, 02:25 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 05-07-2022, 12:07 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by David Horn - 05-07-2022, 06:51 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by beechnut79 - 05-07-2022, 11:57 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-07-2022, 07:23 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by JasonBlack - 05-08-2022, 02:52 PM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by Eric the Green - 05-09-2022, 01:54 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-18-2022, 01:10 AM
RE: Signs of a Dying Empire - by pbrower2a - 05-18-2022, 01:24 AM

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