Let's make fun of Trump, bash him, etc. while we can!

[Classic-Xer]

(01-26-2019, 07:56 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(01-26-2019, 01:31 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-24-2019, 04:06 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: But I don't think you understand what people on the left such as myself, David or P.Brower represent. You keep calling us communists, or say that what we advocate is communism, and that we are not Americans. As long as you do this, you are not capable of discerning what anyone on the Left thinks. There are differences among the Left and the Center-Left, to be sure, but the line is very fluid, and the moderates still have an electoral advantage, although this could shift in the next decade.

I suspect many on the Right and the Left alike are firm in a lot of their opinions. Right now those who lean left have about a 51 to 45% lead in opinion polls on various issues and approval/disapproval polls. There is some variation in this, of course. But our hope on the Left is that this lead will grow a bit over the next few years, and that it will be enough to overcome the systemic advantage that you guys on the right have through voter suppression, gerrymandering, the electoral college, the senate, the money in politics, the supreme court, etc. 

If we can have a winning streak in elections, then the right wing will shrink and gradually disappear amid the success of the country and the government. If the Left starts to win elections, it will be up to you guys whether to rebel over guns and/or taxes or immigrants, etc., and whether to do it violently. If the Left fails in the coming election years, then the country will decline, and some will exercize the option to move away. The Left historically has not been able to win a revolution unless it is well-organized with state and foreign help. That is also true on the Right. 

But I suspect the Left will not be the ones to organize such a successful revolution. We will just keep plugging away while right-wing rule ruins the country, in hopes the younger people will wake up. The more your side wins, the greater the decline our country will face. I suspect it will become quite a steep decline in short order, and fueled by climate change.

I associate your socialist views and socialist ideology with communism. I associate the term socialism with the term communism as well. Now, you may not be directly advocating for communism as you say. However, I do believe that communism or a  more communist like system is the end result that you'd prefer to see representing you and your interests and serving the interests of blues in general. Yes, I view you and David as communist sympathizers/believers. However, I happen to  view PB as more of a useful idiot or political pawn at this point. BTW, I think the American Right could win an American war with the Left without having to count on foreign help these days. I mean, we'd have an American government in place and an American system in place and an economic system in place and an American army in place and a large population of Americans who would be willing to support them.

All Communists are socialists, but socialists are not all Communists. The hostility between social democrats and Communists is severe, social democrats rejecting the concepts of 'dictatorship or the proletariat' and the oxymoronic 'democratic centralism' which is anything but democratic. Democratic socialists reject dictatorship in any form, including one consisting of workers or on their supposed behalf. Democratic socialists believe firmly in the rule of law, free and competitive elections, and the desirability of an opposition. 'Democratic centralism' means that decisions made by the Party leadership are binding upon all members of the Party, which ensures that there will never be any further discussion unless the Party leadership brings it up.

Use4ful idiot? Me? Of whom?

Yes, the Right could take over America, or at least huge parts of it, by force, if it so chose.  The Right has most of the agricultural areas and the energy production, and if it ever cut off the food, water, and energy to the Blue cities, it could starve those cities into surrender. People like you, Classic X'er, sound like the sort of Fifth Column that would sell out the Greater Twin Cities so that liberals would be helpless against being sent to the torture chambers, labor camps, and killing fields. The Right well knows how to drive people to the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

But that right-wing America would be a nightmare as horrible as the Soviet Union, the sole differences being that there would be clear private ownership of assets and that the ruling elite would use religion (Obey us or suffer eternally in Hell!) as a means of controlling people. Teachers who teach the wrong lesson or clergy who preach sermons critical of the leadership would be tortured and murdered. Try to organize a union? Your employer will be free to organize a lynch mob against you!

I am satisfied that a fascistic America would eventually bring about its own demise through wars for profit that try to bring the America nightmare to places where such is unwelcome. The people slated for slavery fight bravely and prevail. In the end America would be like Italy in the latter years of World War II, where people welcome the invaders as liberators  from a brutal tyranny. Were I the right age I would be delighted to smash the icons of the regime, denounce secret police, and participate in establishing a new educational system. I have far more in common with an Iranian liberal than with an American fascist.

You're right, a socialist could actually prefer a Fascist system over a Communist system these days. I bet Nancy would be more likely to favor a Fascist system/state than a Communist system/state. As far as I know, the Fascist system/state doesn't require a complete sacrifice of personal wealth and privilege like the Communist system/state. I doubt the blue communists would have much of a chance defeating the blue fascists. After all, the blue fascists have a system in place and a military force that's in place as well. BTW, I'd say "democratic centralism" seems to be what you're supporting today and seems to be what you've been supporting for several years.