02-07-2020, 06:34 PM
(02-07-2020, 04:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(02-07-2020, 03:50 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:Evidently, they must have believed that they were under an oppressive liberal regime at the time. Unless you're lying and here seeking attention or self promoting, you should be able to relate to their feelings at the time. Yes, McViegh used them (Waco and Ruby Ridge) as the moral justification for his action and the moral justification for the revolution that he tried to start with the bombing of the Murrah federal building.(02-07-2020, 02:51 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yep. I felt bad about the daycare kids who died in Oklahoma and I felt bad about the kids who burned to death in Waco and I felt bad about the innocent mother and the kid who died at Ruby Ridge too. Evidently, McViegh didn't think the liberal media and the leaders of our primarily left wing progressive government at the time had paid enough attention to lives of innocent people and decided to do something bigger to wake them up and bring them back down to earth so to speak. The dude was a cold blooded murderer who was caught, convicted by an American court and rightfully executed as a terrorist.
Except when no other recourse is possible, as under occupation of a totalitarian regime, there is no excuse for terroristic violence. Only when choices in life reduce at best to "comply or die" does terrorism become viable -- and that can lead to horrific reprisals (Lezaky and Lidice).
If you want to talk about the Branch Davidian compound in contrast to the bombing of the Murrah building -- the only truly guilty person who was at the scene of the crime was Timothy McVeigh. People got no warning... and had there been even a remote suspicion of a bomb threat the Feds would have vacated the building. David Koresh got plenty of warning to get children out to safety -- and did not. What looked like a mighty fortress was in fact a firetrap.
David Koresh was sought for illegal deeds involving weapons, but nailed for accusations of child abuse. Koresh used the children as hostages. Koresh could have complied with court orders and saved much trouble for people at his compound far more innocent than himself. I see more in common between McVeigh and Koresh than you do -- both harbored extreme ideas including contempt for the Laws of the Land. We will never know the full details on events at the Branch Davidian compound. McVeigh used the cataclysm at the Branch Davidian compound as a pretext for a horrific bombing. He had no excuse.
"Oppressive regime" does not mean that one simply dislikes it. It means instead that the regimes takes harsh measures to suppress dissent, rivalry, or opposition; holds only meaningless, rigged elections if at all; persecutes minorities for origin or faith; enforces slavery or peonage; or has the economy running to prevent competition.
It is clear that rather few Americans thought Obama a good-to-great President and think Trump a good-to-great President. Evidence that the USA is not yet an oppressive regime is that we have plenty of demonstrations against the President. Most people are convinced that the November election will be meaningful.
I do not understand what Tim McVeigh thought. The focus of the trial was upon the deed, and not on giving McVeigh a forum for venting his beliefs. Because he did not issue a manifesto after his crimes as did Ted "Unabom" Kaczynski we can only piece together what he believed in by asking people who knew him. Terry Nichols' wife told her husband to stay clear of McVeigh out of concern that McVeigh could lead him into great legal and personal problems.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.