Debate about Gun Control

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-07-2017, 06:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: IF there really is "mind," which you refer to, then it can't be explained as matter.

Or matter / space / time / energy...

I'm afraid I'm crossed over to a place where science is the dominant perspective to understand the world, even paranormal phenomena. A mind altering drug or physical damage to a brain effect minds in a way to suppose the physical structure drives the thoughts. Seeing no evidence otherwise, or of consciousness existing outside of brains, I assume minds will in time be fully explained as matter / space / time / energy.

(06-07-2017, 06:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The universal mind or cosmic consciousness did occur to a few mystic esoteric initiates and philosophers in the agricultural age, but they were hardly the dominant paradigm or attitude shaping the culture. Still, it lies at the heart of all the religions. Traditional religion in The West remained authoritarian; roughly the idea that a personal god created the world; the Big Daddy in the sky. In the Orient, though, mystical or at least organic views of the cosmos were more prevalent, and so they remain. Modernists adopted materialism; but it's outdated, and post-modern and new age views embrace consciousness again, in an updated way.

The part of this I'd watch is an assumption of your own perspective's superiority. You seem to know which perspective has been 'updated', which is outdated, and which is more evolved with considerable certainty and smugness. Well, this is common enough. Cynic Hero can also be certain and smug that his is the world view that is correct, true, and will achieve nigh on inevitable triumph. Color me dubious. To me, you are both just values locked partisans, ever so sure of yourselves, not ready to reevaluate established thought patterns. Not all world views are as wonderful as their believers perceive. I find the lack of willingness to understand and respect other views as problematic, not to mention a grave cause of unnecessary violence and conflict.

(06-07-2017, 06:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Uncertain or probable does not mean random, as I understand the term. I view probability as more a statement of the limits of knowledge, rather than a definite proclamation that the world happens all by chance. But yes, I am all for minds. I don't use the term supernatural, because there's no division between consciousness and nature; everything is conscious. Pan psychism. Right now, I can't prove it's compatible with quantum theory; maybe another time    

Einstein got caught up wishing for much the same thing. He famously said, "God does not play dice with the universe." He too tried to cling for a time to a clockwork one solution view of quantum effects. He tried to maintain the certainty of the Newtonian style of equations. The difference is that he came to understand that the new equations were different. Instead of breaking the uncertainty, he came to improve the understanding of the uncertainty.

As I see it, you are using the words 'quantum physics' to justify your magical thinking, without understanding quantum physics. It gives me a headache.