Debate about Gun Control

[David Horn]

(10-21-2017, 01:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 08:47 AM)David Horn Wrote: ... First you hammer away at the anti-immigrant memes, then you claim that private firepower can save the day.  I assume you have no experience with this at all.  Go ask a combat vet whether your plan has a snowball's chance in hell of actually working.  FWIW, once the shooting starts, it's the definition of chaos.  Combat units train to work past that, and have tactical tools to make that possible.  Even then, they have death-by-friendly-fire incidents on a regular basis.  I doubt you and your amateur gunners will do 10% as well.

I grew-up and currently live in an area where hunting is common.  If you want to hunt, get a license, follow the rules and go at it.  My next door neighbor is a taxidermist who will be glad to handle the rest.  Just don't tell me that you are acting in my defense or even just your own.  Once you do that, I'm at risk and so are members of my family and friends.

Private gun ownership could save the day. I'm sure there is/ would be confusion, initial shock, initial fear when a situation involving lots of shooting/ mass shooter begins in a place/area where lots of shooting doesn't normally occur. However, if you are capable of adjusting to that situation and capable of using a firearm that's available, one could address the issue or present a problem/threat that such a shooter would have to deal with for obvious reasons.

This is the exact problem you fail to understand. Unless you are trained to overcome the loss of your bearings that occurs in high stress situations, they tend to grow worse rather than better. Adrenaline is good for fight or flight, but not for rational decision making. I had this same discussion with 'nihilist moron' on the old forum. She wisely decided to stay away from that topic.

Classic-Xer Wrote:The question seems to be, am I one who could get over the shock, keep my wits together, summon up the courage, engage and take down a spree shooter or keep them busy until the pro's arrive. I say yes because I know what I'm capable of doing & acting under extreme pressure. I'd have a significant advantage over them at that point. The dude/dudette would be in the unenviable position of dealing with the threat of an experienced hunter who has changed the situation with them. I'm sure there would be a psychological impact and an adjustment that would occur with them when a bullet either hits them or buzzes by them. I'm sure the situation (the confusion, the initial shock/ fear, entry into the unknown) that had already occurred with me would occur with them. A spree shooter would have to adjust to the presence of another shooter who is seriously targeting them.

On what would you base your expectations, just to be clear about it? My experience is 180 degrees counter to your belief. Here's why. Unless you arrive with the full expectation that a shooter will target the area, you will be surprised when the shooting starts. The adrenaline kicks in, but you, having no training to channel that in a positive way, will get hyperactive and disoriented. What follows at that point is hard to predict, but it's less likely to go well than badly.

FWIW, I attended the Special Forces Training Center on Okinawa during my sojourn in the Army. We were expecting to be attacked during our various training exercises, but they still came as a surprise every time. Wisely, only the guy on point had live ammo, or some of us may have spent a lot longer on the island.

Classic-Xer Wrote:Once I do that, you're at risk and you're family is at risk. The same risk that you and your family and every one else involved were already in. However, the situation you were in would change. The spree shooter would now be at risk too. The spree shooter would have to adjust to defending themselves. The spree shooting would become less as the shooter adjusts to the change with the situation. The risk relating to you and you're family would become lower as well as the shooter adjusts to the presence of a shooter targeting them. Now, if you happen to be living in the home where the spree shooter is near, you'll still be at risk of being shot like you were with the spree shooter but you'd only be facing a few rounds coming from me. Remember, I'll be facing the bulk of the rounds. I'll be trying to kill them or seriously wound them and keeping them hunkered down/ busy until police arrive. I won't be acting like the spree shooter. I have to say, I'm getting tired of the you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, arm chair (safe place), can't/don't do anything that could hurt me positions that blues tend to use and apply all the time.

This is a nice plan, but the incidents we're discussing don't succumb to planning.