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Debate about Gun Control
(07-09-2016, 06:29 AM)Galen Wrote: to taramarie --

In a very real sense the question you have to ask is not: Do you trust the government of today but rather the one of tomorrow?  History is filled with examples of governments that were benevolent that later became oppressive and tyrannical.  Famous last words: It can't happen here.  The Germans felt that way in the during the Weimar regime but that gave way to the Nazi era and that did not end well.  I like to think of the Second Amendment as a canary in the coal mine.

Consider the following graph of trust in the federal government:
[Image: CmyxJnJWYAAinG7.jpg:large]

I was born in 1965 throughout the entirety of my life trust in the major institutions of the US has been generally down and I don't see the general trend changing. While there have been upswings the general trend has been downward and you have seen how its enforcers regard the little people.  Under such circumstances would you trust them with a monopoly on force?  Governments under stress tend to get very abusive.

This is the problem that we face.  Bankrupt governments are also notorious for not being able to provide security for their people.  By any historical measure the US Federal Government is bankrupt even if most of its citizens are incapable or unwilling to recognize this fact.  Such governments are also notorious for abusing their citizens and it seems unlikely that the US will be any different.  To my mind the only way to prevent such an outcome is to deny them such a monopoly on the use of force.

Consider what the the following link from the University of Hawaii:
   https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/MURDER.HTM

I know that there are many here who think that the kiwi doesn't know anything but you are willing to look at the data and that puts you seriously ahead of (distorted handles redacted).  I understand your position on the matter but I provide the data for others to look at so they may understand the conversation if they choose.  The fact that you understand the general case of what government prohibitions tend to do means that you have a better insight into human nature than most of those who are older than you.

There is an idea that a fourth turning leads to an increased trust in the usual institutions but that doesn't take into account the end of empires.  I am fairly certain that the American Empire which got its start in 1898 is about to end and it will not be quick or painless.

1. What matters is that the debt not rise faster than the population. It may seem paradoxical, but the currency in your wallet and the money in your bank account is all government debt. That debt is easy to transact -- far easier than gold.

2. Of course I would distrust a Trump administration -- so much that if my job did not depend upon remaining in the USA I would have an extended "workation" in some other country. I understand that New Zealand is very nice. Contrast Australia, which has some of the most dangerous wildlife, and South Africa, which has some very dangerous people.

3. The solution I see is to cut out the crony capitalism and reduce the role of the federal government to welfare, law enforcement, and defense. Except for some work on the Census I have gotten nothing from the federal government without paying for it. Census pay? At least I worked for it as if for a private employer.

4. An empire in decline? First the society must go undemocratic, and government by lobbyist is not democracy.

5. Hitler was a freakish situation. American minorities are far better organized than was the model minority (the Jews!) of Germany. We know what a dictatorship looks like from film clips of Germany, a country with obvious similarities of culture to the United States, between 1933 and 1945.

We do not have a recent hyperinflation. We do not have a recent, crushing defeat that polarized the nation between doves who wanted no more war and hawks seeking to settle scores with other nations. Gutter racism is socially unacceptable socially. It's telling that the people who use religious and racial slurs are the same people who use copious four-letter words. In short, such people lack impulse control.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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Messages In This Thread
Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-13-2016, 06:20 PM
An Interesting Cartoon - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-13-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: An Interesting Cartoon - by playwrite - 06-16-2016, 11:14 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-13-2016, 07:49 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-13-2016, 09:29 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-16-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-13-2016, 11:41 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 06-14-2016, 01:51 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-14-2016, 09:20 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by radind - 06-14-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-14-2016, 08:00 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-16-2016, 11:27 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-14-2016, 02:00 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-15-2016, 04:56 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-15-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-16-2016, 06:14 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 06-16-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-16-2016, 07:50 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-16-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-16-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-16-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-17-2016, 01:12 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-20-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-22-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-23-2016, 01:34 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-23-2016, 08:34 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-23-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-23-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-23-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-23-2016, 11:34 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-16-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 06-16-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2016, 01:22 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 06-16-2016, 07:17 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-16-2016, 08:01 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by TnT - 06-20-2016, 03:24 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-20-2016, 07:23 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Skabungus - 07-13-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 06-16-2016, 07:53 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-16-2016, 08:11 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 06-16-2016, 11:53 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-17-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 06-17-2016, 02:40 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 06-18-2016, 05:55 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2016, 12:23 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 06-16-2016, 03:51 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2016, 06:36 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 06-16-2016, 01:47 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-16-2016, 10:07 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2016, 02:58 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-17-2016, 04:58 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-17-2016, 05:06 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 06-21-2016, 08:58 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-17-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-17-2016, 06:29 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-17-2016, 09:30 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-17-2016, 09:32 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-18-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bronco80 - 06-20-2016, 04:11 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-20-2016, 07:27 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-20-2016, 10:27 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 06-18-2016, 10:54 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-19-2016, 01:49 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-19-2016, 03:34 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-20-2016, 10:25 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 06-20-2016, 11:16 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-21-2016, 10:20 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-21-2016, 10:35 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-21-2016, 11:05 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 06-22-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-22-2016, 01:03 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-22-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Dan '82 - 06-22-2016, 07:54 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-22-2016, 11:08 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-23-2016, 02:04 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-23-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-23-2016, 11:41 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 06-25-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-26-2016, 10:56 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-27-2016, 05:01 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-27-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-28-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-29-2016, 06:52 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-03-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 06-26-2016, 09:38 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-27-2016, 05:07 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 06-28-2016, 12:13 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-28-2016, 04:57 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-27-2016, 11:44 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 06-28-2016, 09:08 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-28-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 06-28-2016, 10:18 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 06-28-2016, 05:21 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-28-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 06-28-2016, 12:03 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-28-2016, 05:22 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-29-2016, 06:59 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 06-29-2016, 07:10 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-29-2016, 12:46 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-29-2016, 12:53 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-29-2016, 06:31 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-03-2016, 05:04 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-03-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-05-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-29-2016, 07:21 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-30-2016, 01:43 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 06-30-2016, 07:23 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-30-2016, 10:19 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-30-2016, 10:20 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Cynic Hero '86 - 06-30-2016, 03:19 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 07-01-2016, 07:31 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 07-01-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-02-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-01-2016, 11:38 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by TnT - 07-01-2016, 01:00 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 07-02-2016, 07:59 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-03-2016, 05:46 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 07-03-2016, 02:10 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 07-03-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-04-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-04-2016, 04:13 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-04-2016, 08:44 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-05-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-05-2016, 12:00 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-05-2016, 12:10 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-05-2016, 05:15 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-05-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-06-2016, 08:51 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-07-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 07-06-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-06-2016, 11:14 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-07-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-07-2016, 01:33 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-08-2016, 07:58 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 07-07-2016, 03:32 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-08-2016, 08:11 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-07-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-07-2016, 05:09 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-08-2016, 12:56 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-08-2016, 08:45 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Webmaster - 07-08-2016, 05:02 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-09-2016, 05:35 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-09-2016, 05:47 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-09-2016, 05:40 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-09-2016, 06:23 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-11-2016, 08:50 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-09-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-09-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-11-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-10-2016, 11:09 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-10-2016, 04:42 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-10-2016, 06:19 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 07-10-2016, 11:42 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-11-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 07-10-2016, 11:00 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-10-2016, 11:55 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 07-11-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-11-2016, 07:16 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 07-11-2016, 08:52 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-11-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-11-2016, 12:05 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-11-2016, 07:14 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-11-2016, 10:20 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-11-2016, 11:06 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 07-12-2016, 08:42 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-12-2016, 10:54 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 07-12-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-12-2016, 08:46 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 07-13-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-12-2016, 03:01 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 07-12-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 07-12-2016, 06:10 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-12-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 07-12-2016, 08:10 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-12-2016, 08:57 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 07-12-2016, 10:04 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 07-13-2016, 12:12 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 07-13-2016, 12:06 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 07-13-2016, 07:49 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by playwrite - 07-12-2016, 08:49 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-12-2016, 06:34 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 07-13-2016, 12:29 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-13-2016, 02:32 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 07-13-2016, 03:53 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-13-2016, 04:38 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-13-2016, 04:41 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-13-2016, 04:56 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by radind - 07-18-2016, 01:30 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 08-01-2016, 06:33 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by TnT - 07-17-2016, 04:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-18-2016, 12:44 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 07-18-2016, 07:28 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-18-2016, 10:13 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 07-18-2016, 10:14 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 07-21-2016, 08:21 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-01-2016, 05:49 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-01-2016, 06:07 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-01-2016, 06:23 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 08-15-2016, 07:20 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-16-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-04-2016, 01:25 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 08-15-2016, 05:53 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-16-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 08-07-2016, 04:21 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-07-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-15-2016, 01:08 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 08-15-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-15-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-15-2016, 06:46 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-15-2016, 08:18 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-17-2016, 02:50 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-17-2016, 02:52 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-17-2016, 03:37 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Cynic Hero '86 - 08-18-2016, 04:08 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-19-2016, 02:43 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-19-2016, 12:42 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 08-20-2016, 12:26 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 08-20-2016, 12:48 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-24-2016, 06:48 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-20-2016, 06:40 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 08-21-2016, 01:26 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-22-2016, 03:22 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 08-22-2016, 06:26 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-24-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 08-26-2016, 01:17 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-30-2016, 03:12 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-22-2016, 06:34 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 08-23-2016, 03:48 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-24-2016, 08:47 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-24-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-24-2016, 09:11 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-26-2016, 10:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-30-2016, 03:14 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-26-2016, 11:02 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 08-30-2016, 03:37 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-30-2016, 10:18 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-07-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 08-30-2016, 10:20 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-07-2016, 03:52 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 09-01-2016, 09:51 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 09-01-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Cynic Hero '86 - 09-01-2016, 10:59 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 09-06-2016, 10:05 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-06-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Warren Dew - 09-07-2016, 12:04 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-07-2016, 04:22 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Warren Dew - 09-07-2016, 12:22 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 09-07-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-07-2016, 04:27 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Warren Dew - 09-07-2016, 02:21 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 09-07-2016, 02:31 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-07-2016, 04:35 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 09-07-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Warren Dew - 09-07-2016, 03:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 07:04 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 07:08 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 07:20 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-07-2016, 10:36 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 09-08-2016, 07:22 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-13-2016, 05:14 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 07:31 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 07:37 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-07-2016, 07:47 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-08-2016, 01:04 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 09-07-2016, 09:57 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-08-2016, 12:31 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-08-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Copperfield - 09-13-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-08-2016, 02:30 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-08-2016, 11:24 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-16-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-16-2016, 09:05 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 09-16-2016, 10:20 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-16-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-16-2016, 01:04 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 09-16-2016, 11:59 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-27-2016, 12:51 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 09-28-2016, 12:08 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 09-27-2016, 08:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-28-2016, 12:39 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 09-28-2016, 02:30 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 10-14-2016, 06:36 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 10-18-2016, 12:16 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 10-19-2016, 11:13 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-22-2016, 01:13 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 10-22-2016, 01:33 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 10-23-2016, 06:39 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-22-2016, 10:52 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Anthony '58 - 10-22-2016, 01:55 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-22-2016, 09:23 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by TeacherinExile - 02-13-2017, 11:23 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 02-16-2017, 12:19 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by TeacherinExile - 02-16-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 02-17-2017, 06:27 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 02-17-2017, 07:27 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by TeacherinExile - 02-17-2017, 12:47 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by TeacherinExile - 02-17-2017, 02:53 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 02-16-2017, 07:53 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 02-16-2017, 12:59 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 02-17-2017, 03:02 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 02-18-2017, 07:40 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 02-17-2017, 03:10 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 02-18-2017, 01:22 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 04-19-2017, 05:02 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 04-20-2017, 02:18 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 04-20-2017, 03:23 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 04-21-2017, 11:56 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 04-21-2017, 04:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Warren Dew - 04-21-2017, 08:18 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 04-29-2017, 12:25 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Cynic Hero '86 - 04-30-2017, 02:32 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 04-30-2017, 03:31 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-01-2017, 01:45 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-16-2017, 02:14 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-16-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 05-16-2017, 04:11 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-16-2017, 10:25 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-16-2017, 10:32 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-17-2017, 12:35 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-17-2017, 02:57 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-17-2017, 06:05 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-18-2017, 02:58 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-18-2017, 04:13 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-21-2017, 08:22 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-21-2017, 05:45 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-21-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 05-21-2017, 07:39 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-21-2017, 08:03 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 05-21-2017, 10:06 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-21-2017, 11:49 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-22-2017, 12:47 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 05-22-2017, 01:12 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 05-22-2017, 11:35 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-22-2017, 01:32 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-22-2017, 07:28 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-22-2017, 09:06 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-22-2017, 10:10 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-22-2017, 10:28 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-22-2017, 11:39 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 05-23-2017, 06:51 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-23-2017, 12:16 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-23-2017, 01:33 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 05-23-2017, 03:16 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-23-2017, 07:11 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 05-24-2017, 03:25 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-25-2017, 01:20 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-23-2017, 11:08 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-23-2017, 01:37 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by bobc - 05-30-2017, 06:29 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-30-2017, 07:53 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-31-2017, 10:02 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 05-31-2017, 11:09 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-07-2017, 09:29 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-23-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-31-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-02-2017, 01:11 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 05-31-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-02-2017, 09:47 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-07-2017, 06:54 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-07-2017, 11:03 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-07-2017, 02:07 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-07-2017, 03:27 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-07-2017, 04:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-07-2017, 06:59 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-07-2017, 08:10 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-07-2017, 11:08 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-08-2017, 03:29 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-08-2017, 07:22 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Ragnarök_62 - 06-09-2017, 02:34 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-09-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-09-2017, 08:10 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-09-2017, 04:37 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-14-2017, 09:13 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 06-15-2017, 06:34 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-15-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-14-2017, 09:21 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-14-2017, 09:43 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 06-14-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by The Wonkette - 06-14-2017, 01:13 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 06-14-2017, 01:46 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-14-2017, 05:41 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 06-15-2017, 12:36 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-15-2017, 09:48 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Odin - 06-16-2017, 06:30 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2017, 10:41 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 06-16-2017, 01:33 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-16-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Mikebert - 06-18-2017, 11:33 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 06-20-2017, 11:58 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Warren Dew - 10-09-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by The Wonkette - 06-20-2017, 06:46 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 06-20-2017, 10:46 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-09-2017, 09:21 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Bob Butler 54 - 10-09-2017, 05:40 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-09-2017, 05:54 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-09-2017, 10:07 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-10-2017, 01:06 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-11-2017, 04:51 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 10-12-2017, 03:49 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by noway2 - 10-16-2017, 03:39 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-16-2017, 04:30 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-16-2017, 11:57 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-17-2017, 11:26 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-16-2017, 07:02 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-16-2017, 11:48 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-17-2017, 11:53 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-17-2017, 01:15 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-17-2017, 02:41 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-17-2017, 08:33 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-18-2017, 02:22 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-18-2017, 11:53 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-18-2017, 09:07 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-19-2017, 11:03 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-19-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-17-2017, 03:29 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by noway2 - 10-17-2017, 04:05 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-17-2017, 05:32 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-17-2017, 06:46 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-18-2017, 02:42 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-19-2017, 02:48 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by noway2 - 10-19-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-19-2017, 11:04 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-19-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-19-2017, 03:16 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-19-2017, 05:24 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-21-2017, 08:47 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-21-2017, 01:50 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-22-2017, 10:21 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-22-2017, 07:29 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-24-2017, 11:51 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 10-24-2017, 12:15 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-25-2017, 01:59 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 10-25-2017, 02:11 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 10-25-2017, 03:23 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-25-2017, 01:47 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-25-2017, 10:00 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by noway2 - 10-20-2017, 12:10 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-21-2017, 08:53 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-21-2017, 02:22 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 10-21-2017, 05:49 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-22-2017, 03:47 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-22-2017, 10:32 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-22-2017, 08:19 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-23-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by David Horn - 10-25-2017, 10:08 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by noway2 - 10-25-2017, 10:31 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Classic-Xer - 10-25-2017, 11:09 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 10-22-2017, 01:17 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by noway2 - 10-23-2017, 09:16 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Eric the Green - 10-23-2017, 12:55 PM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by Galen - 10-24-2017, 02:29 AM
RE: Debate about Gun Control - by pbrower2a - 10-24-2017, 11:37 AM

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