Debate about Gun Control

[Copperfield]

(09-07-2016, 07:20 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Well yes, I agree. And Jefferson said a little revolution every once in a while is a good thing too. Maybe so. But this was not something that was ever going to be put into the Constitution. A government does not give a people the right to disobey its constitution or its laws. Such a revolution has to be unconstitutional, and the rebels must be ready to pay the price for their rebellion. Dixie paid the price and it wasn't pretty.

Nowadays, unlike in Jefferson's time, the influence of Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. have entered the picture. In an at-least semi-civilized society like ours, non-violent revolutions work better. In places like Syria, no. The non-violent protesters needed to form an army, and they did.

They didn't need to. It was already stated up front in the declaration of independence. I suspect they felt it might be redundant after they had just finished, you know, removing the previous government with violence.

Still going along with the non-violence mythologies? India's revolution against the British (the one that led to final independence) was actually quite violent, marked by bombings, raids, acts of sabotage, mutiny and even political assassination against British military and political figures. It was quite the opposite of Hollywood's treatment of the story. Gandhi and his particular civil disobedience movement was only a part of Indian Independence. India's overthrow of British rule is actually historically fascinating once you get past the silly American mythologies. It's remarkable for it not only being a giant cluster fuck but also for taking nearly 200 years from start to finish.

(09-06-2016, 11:13 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'm not so sure you can say the government has declared war on its own citizens. Generation X hyperbole; a common thing you are expressing, although I don't think the majority of Xers feel that way. Yes  it has done some things that I would agree with you are not proper conduct on US citizens. I'm not sure it has ever been any different.

Of course I can. The war on drugs, the war on poverty, the war on crime, the war on terrorism (just to name a few). I mean the government even calls them war by name. And these are just the ones they publically name. Let's play a quick game of War Zone or Missouri!




Look like a war zone to you? That's what our government does when it wants to practice cracking down on free speech. Just wait until they get really serious about it.

(09-06-2016, 11:13 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Why did it call specifically for setting one up, then?

Article I, Section 8 calls on Congress to provide for a standing Navy (that is full-time) but specifically only allows for a maximum of two years of appropriations for a standing army. Note that there is no such mention of a time limit on either the US navy or militia. When the constitution was written there was a major distrust for standing armies (Bob has already been over this with you in greater detail). Indeed for great periods of time there hasn't been a standing army in the United States, usually being disbanded once a particular war was over. That all changed after the world wars and the United States became a military and economic empire (another reason standing armies are bad mmkay?). Hell Congress doesn't even bother deliberating on appropriations anymore. Nearly the entire process is done through the Pentagon and through the Armed Services committee.

Problem is, once you've more or less conquered the entire world you run out of bad guys to fight with all that army. No surprise that, in addition to record weapon sales to foreign nations and fomenting violence in resource rich nations, our government has started to turn its hostility inward eyeing its own citizens.

(09-06-2016, 11:13 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Yes, and the Kurds get US backing. And the Kurds are not anarchist fanatics who hate their autonomous regional state, and merely want to protect their right to bear arms. They are real freedom fighters and deserve our support.

Uhhh yeah... You really should start reading about some of the dogs in the fight over there. You might start learning from the experiences and experiments of others.