Presidential election, 2016

[Bob Butler 54]

(11-12-2016, 09:16 PM)taramarie Wrote: But it sounds like a clash of ideals over there. Correct if wrong. Left wing politics vs right wing and the ideal way to live/govern.

Correct in that we're locked into a clash of ideals.  It's problematic, though, that we're locked into fixed positions.  An awful lot of us can only see things through specific perspectives and attitudes, which is emphatically not ideal.

(11-12-2016, 09:16 PM)taramarie Wrote: Bingo. Wave to Eric who called me a deplorable and Playwrite who says I wear my progressive streak on my sleeve. I know they will read this. I am trying out a new strategy because yours certainly does not work. I am still very much a progressive person. Just I am suspicious of the way you guys are dealing with it.

Nitpick:  I generally avoid naming other posters specifically in conversations like these.  It just gets the conversation one step closer to personal attack mode.  I'll talk about 'extreme partisans' as a group and let them decide whether the shoe fits or not.

Again, whether various methods work depends on how you keep score.  One can very seldom if ever move an extreme partisan off his bedrock, but you can occasionally make him drop specific arguments or positions.  The latter implies you have made him think, even if he will almost never admit it.  Forcing him to admit it is a futile enough exercise that I seldom try.

(11-12-2016, 09:16 PM)taramarie Wrote: That is why they need to realize listening does not hurt. Stereotypes are not helpful. I do know that with some it will not work. That is their downfall. I feel very sorry for them. This is the reason why I said to pbrower that this will not be solved in his life time. Well aware some just will refuse to give up the stereotype.

Problem is, in some respects listening does hurt.  Extreme partisans are often incapable of reevaluating their world views or values.  To force them to reconsider basics is very hard for them.  It's not physical pain, but it's emotional trauma.  That is why they have defense mechanisms such as vile stereotypes.  When you are right and they are wrong on a fact and ideals level, you become invisible, one of their vile stereotypes suddenly materializes where you were standing, and they will attack the vile stereotype.  The inability to perceive obvious facts is another defense mechanism.  Whenever an extreme partisan starts responding in a childish or abusive fashion, it is quite likely that you have stressed their world view or values to the point where their mind has to change the subject, move the conversation away from where their inflexible way of perceiving things has failed them.

One way to keep score in a political chat room is by personal attacks drawn by facts and ideals.  With many extreme partisans, whenever you draw a personal attack, you have successfully proven their values are flawed, though most will posture and squirm to avoid at all costs admitting it.  They were unable to defend their points of view.  They'll revert to elementary school recess behavior, insults and verbal brawls.  Thus, when someone sends abusive childish stuff at me, I am apt to quietly smirk and repeat variations of the ideals and facts that caused them to loose their cool.

Mean of me, I know, but that's all one can really do.  Pushing someone entirely off his bedrock is extremely rare.

(11-12-2016, 09:16 PM)taramarie Wrote: As I said I have developed a different way to deal with it. Don't you worry I am keeping it in check.

Good luck with that.    Seriously.  I hope it works out.