Presidential election, 2016

[Eric the Green]

(11-27-2016, 12:05 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-27-2016, 03:41 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-27-2016, 01:56 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-26-2016, 06:10 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Louise XIV and Bush 43 went past moderation to ruinous.  Trump's campaign rhetoric suggested he was going to go past Bush 43.  The way Trump is disregarding his campaign rhetoric, though, I don't know yet how far he is really willing to take the debt.

Trump doesn't have any choice about taking the debt past Bush since it has already been doubled by Obama.

I notice you left out that part, though.  I guess you like demagogues as long as they're on your side.

Woah there! Trump is proposing unnecessary and wasteful spending and huge and useless tax cuts. In no way is this reckless policy something that is not a choice, and in no way does it relate to anything that happened under Obama.

What Obama spent, however, was directly related to the outcome of Bush 43's policies, namely the great recession and the stimulus which was the only thing that got us out of it, or could have gotten us out of it.

The stimulus spending that Obama actually did was as wasteful and counterproductive as anything Trump might be proposing.  Obama managed to delay the recovery by his entire two terms, keeping our growth rate well below trend.

But whatever you think of Obama's spending, it clearly took us beyond the Bush deficit, and clearly was not Trump's doing.  For Bob's statement to be correct, you'd have to believe that Trump could magically roll back all of Obama's deficit spending, returning the deficit to where it was at the end of the Bush administration, when it stood at half it's current level.  That's clearly ridiculous.

The facts are quite otherwise. The economy began to recover just months after the stimulus was passed; then the recovery slowed after the Republican wins in 2010, which was followed by massive cuts to the stimulus and to local teaching and other government-paid work, which cancelled out the gains in employment in the private sector.

The deficit is almost down to the level at the end of Bush 43's administration.


http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/fede...chart.html

Did the deficit get reduced by 2/3 as Obama claims?

He used % of GDP instead of real dollars, and started from 2009 when the deficit ballooned because of the great recession, both because of his stimulus, and because of decreased revenue and increased relief.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...-two-thir/

This article says the deficit might grow somewhat because entitlements have not been "reformed." But the only reform needed is to raise taxes in some way, most-notably by raising the cap on the income taxed. That might at least ensure that more of the money paid into entitlements programs, are actually used for them.

But now the situation has changed. With Trump and the GOP in charge, higher taxes are off the table, and spending might increase substantially if the GOP passes his proposals.