12-04-2016, 10:25 PM
(12-04-2016, 02:07 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:(12-04-2016, 11:13 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:(12-04-2016, 10:14 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: The problem is that they don't understand it themselves. Most of them believe their own side's propaganda, rather than understanding it's about dictatorship of the urban majority over the hinterlands, all in the cause of the blue urban elites.
You started out good, saying each side is into their own propaganda. You then pushed your own side's propaganda without thinking from the other perspective.
Bush 43 was tagged with the 'Republicans are Fascists' propaganda during his entire time in office. I shouldn't need to reprise that? Trump is being labeled as a Putin Friend or Putin Light, a potential strong man. He too is going to be tagged as a dictator in an un American style. His failure to 'drain the swamp' in his cabinet choices will also get him tagged as a representative of the elite. I'm not going to argue against the rural perception that the blue folk are trying to dictate over them. That's real enough and has cause enough. Just don't lose track of equal and opposite beliefs on the other side.
You say I'm pushing red propaganda, but then you say my point is "real enough and has cause enough". Which is it?
There's a difference between genuine issues and propaganda. I push the genuine issues, not the propaganda. And in fact even the right doesn't push this particular idea very much, because it would involve the admission that some urban oriented issues are actually appropriate for urban locations.
Quote:I also see the culture wars stuff as coming from the bases more than from the elites, again using guns an reproductive health care as examples. Oh, the elites of both stripes will use such issues to gather votes, but the bases care about such issues in and of themselves and would with or without encouragement and support from the wealthy.
Guns aren't a culture war issue, they're an elites issue. Who benefits from having guns be heavily regulated? People who can afford to hire heavily regulated bodyguards, rather than having to defend themselves, that's who.
Abortion is a culture war issue, because it stems from moral judgements that aren't really amenable to rational analysis.
Guns are a public safety issue. Thousands of people get murdered in needless gun massacres and other crimes and suicides because there are too many guns and too many insane people have easy access to them.
Heck, one of them even almost killed your hero in 1981.
That's all there is to the gun issue. What your side raises are red herrings that prey on fear.
But for those who can be rational, compromises can be found on both the cultural and gun issues. I suspect that if the Left offers those compromises, the Right will say no. That's how it always works.
You Warren and Classic Xer seem to be carrying on a private conversation. You speak the same language, but you shouldn't expect us blue folks to understand it. That's called living in your echo chamber. As far as I can tell, everything you two said in those posts above applies precisely to yourselves.