Presidential election, 2016

[Classic-Xer]

(12-30-2016, 07:50 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-30-2016, 07:06 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What values are you talking about? His working values or your retirement values? Talking values and using values without any knowledge explanation and clarification pertaining to the values in play appears to be par for the coarse. OK. Now quit and go away believing that your values won.

My values didn't change significantly when I retired.  My position on issues related to this discussion did not change in the least when I retired.  That's not a factor for me.

The Four Freedoms reflect basic progressive values, and are important to me.

There is the usual question on when regulations and entitlements might be beneficial, and when they become harmful.  This is part of the usual red / blue conflict.   In this case, I tend to think that wider health care coverage is worth the unintended consequence of a few contractors having to become full time employees.  The impact on Warren's job status was significantly less than that of a death by denial of health care.  This is important to me, seemingly less important to others.

I'm not sure winning or losing is pertinent, that Warren and I are locked in some contest.  Both of our world views are well enough defended that significant change is unlikely.  It seems vaguely useful to review Progressive Values 101, starting with the Four Freedoms as base premise.  At a guess, clarifying base progressive values from bedrock will draw more attention and perspective change among progressives than among conservatives.  I'm writing more for fellow progressives than for conservatives.  Conservatives are unlikely to comprehend or sympathize.  I am sorry that you can't follow the discussion.  I might try to make it even simpler and plainer, but really listening to other people's values is really hard and writing with sufficient clarity that it might possibly happen it is no easier.

At core, people with strong world views don't want to have their world views changed.  That's hard enough to overcome that one shouldn't expect it.

The Four Freedoms didn't include healthcare. The Freedom from Want  focused on the basic needs for food, clothing and shelter. Evidently, progressives WANT more than just them today. Progressives appear to always want more and expect everyone else to pay for what they want as well.