12-13-2018, 01:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-13-2018, 01:02 PM by Eric the Green.)
(12-13-2018, 12:34 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:What if jobs today are being lost not because of illegal immigration, but because of the behavior of the bosses? The bosses have sent our jobs overseas. They have replaced them with robots. They have cut them back with mergers and buyouts. They have made them useless with lower and lower wages.(12-12-2018, 11:10 AM)David Horn Wrote: Let's start with the caravan, if that's even the right word for a group of unarmed poor people fleeing danger. Do they all have an asylum right? Probably not, though it's incredibly stupid of us not to try our best to address the problems they face back in their home countries. Having them come or not come is not an open question. They will come if it seems less scary than staying. After all, it's not a trivial journey. Could you walk 1000 miles?Does entering illegally or staying illegally really matter when we're talking about legality and legal status? Does term honesty really apply to people who are guilty of stuff that most Americans would most likely view as being dishonest or associate with dishonesty? Dude, the politics has already been shifted to one side (you're side). If you haven't noticed, the Republican voters got rid of some opposition to Trump policies and some who were unable to work as Republicans in the house. I can't blame the Trump supporters for not showing up and supporting a Republican candidate who is opposed to using tariffs or failed to deliver on a promise to replace Obamacare with a bill that's focused on lowering healthcare costs or not supporting a party who doesn't seem to be supportive of him. Nope, I'm going to blame them or label them as deplorable or make excuses for the Republican party and so forth.
Of those we call illegals, 40% are here legally, though they overstayed their visas. Many, if not most, are skilled tradesmen. "Legals" differ from "illegals" by virtue of H-1B visas, that are a giveaway to large companies, providing highly skilled engineers and other STEM-H professionals to those companies at below market rates. So it comes down to cui bono: who benefits. Arguably, the entire country benefits from immigrants arriving here. The3 real issue: how do we assure native Americans that they are not put at a disadvantage, and that's an entirely different discussion.
And please, give me a break on this hyper-patriotism that pervades the right. Most people in the military or first responders are just doing a job … one that tends to pay well and has good benefits. So do teachers, but they don't seem to get recognized for it. Carrying a gun into a dangerous situation is actually less scary than walking in unarmed.
So, if illegal immigration primarily benefits wealthy elites and wealthy corporations and proposes a threat to higher wage American workers who are more likely to vote Democratic based on what I've been told by liberals about the makeup of their political base these days. Why are blues opposed to cracking down on illegal immigrants and shoring up border security and tightening up/strengthening our rather lose immigration laws? You're a blue, do you think the money and tax dollars associated with those elites and corporations has something to with their hesitance.
Illegal immigrants take the lowest-wage jobs that American whites do not want. So how does that threaten their "higher-wage" jobs? Trump supports a merit system of immigration, which means that it is HIS policy that threatens the jobs of American whites with higher wages.
And although an increase in our population could put pressure on our environment, which must be protected against all threats, it does not hurt the economy per se. More consumers, more good workers, more entrepreneurs is the eventual result of immigration, and that all boosts the economy. In CA, Mexican immigrants are our best workers. They are not criminals, as Trump dishonestly charges. Immigrants commit less crime than others, despite Trump's highlighting of some gangs.
Our immigration policy has not been loose. It is too tight, which fuels more illegal immigration. You yourself posted about people you know who were deported under Obama. The immigration issue was stoked by Trump as a campaign tactic, and it exists for no other reason. That it worked says far more about Americans than about immigrants; it says American fears and prejudices are easily aroused.
Terrorists crossing our border is a very well-guarded threat. Our war on drugs has failed, and even reds are now supporting better tactics than locking up drug users. If we get a better policy of treatment rather than jail, then the drug epidemics could lessen and cross-border drug smuggling become less of a problem. Unfortunately Trump would have one less slogan to use for his campaigns, then.
The blues prefer real solutions to problems than merely arousing fear and prejudice, which is what the reds offer.
Quote:As far as my hyper patriotism as you say, my support of the American military and American law enforcement, where would you be without them? Would you be living in America and enjoying your liberties and all the modern comforts associated with American life and the Constitutional protections that you have now and often display here?
The fact is that most wars and military actions which the USA has been involved in had not the slightest thing to do with protecting our liberties, comforts and constitutional protections-- the latter of which may be in serious danger from our Republican supreme court, and have already been diminished by reducing the power of the voting rights act and by voter suppression laws. Luckily in some places, the gerrymandering is being cut back by the people.
Our law enforcement people know that widespread possession of guns, especially the more-recent military semi-automatics, are a severe threat to law enforcement. But a principle tenet of reds these days is protecting the gun culture and gun obsession rather than enact sensible gun control laws. The guns are a principle reason why police are so trigger happy and get away so often with violating our rights and shooting us for no reason.