(01-11-2019, 02:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(01-10-2019, 12:13 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I am discussing a logical fallacy in which you wallow. At its worst it defines out of the national community people who fall short of some idea because of their religion, political beliefs, cultural values, mental or physical handicaps, or national origin. American nationality is generally defined by formal citizenship, most often by birth but also by naturalization.
OK. If I were to average my preference in music by composer based on an average as a definition of my nationality, then I would probably be Czech. Prague is about in the middle of the populous parts of Europe, and if you average Bach and Mozart you get some place in the Czech Republic. Does that make me Czech? I happen to have liked about every piece of Czech classical music that I have ever heard. Does that make me Czech?
OK -- a true Czech at the least speaks Czech (I don't), as language heavily defines a Czech from just about anyone else. There is little reason for anyone to learn Czech unless to translate Czech literature. The language is of little use outside the Czech Republic , and I can think of European languages (English, French, Spanish, German, Italian, Portuguese, Russian, and Polish) far more useful in an international context.
To have an affinity for the music of Stamitz, Smetana, Dvorak, Janacek, and Martinu no more makes one Czech than does having an affinity for Italian opera make one Italian -- or that disliking classical music would make one not a Czech.
As for ideology -- many socialists and even Communists see themselves as Americans. A Commie believes that the truth of some variant of Marxism is universally true throughout the world, and not contradictory to any national entity. Definitive of a nationality? No. There are and have been Socialist states (Commies call their regimes "Socialist", and not "Communist", communism representing the ultimate objective of a super-advanced social order that develops under the rule of a Communist order through economic and technological advances). They consider the advancement of Socialism as the definitive exercise of patriotism.
Does someone lose US Citizenship by becoming a Communist? No more than by joining a KKK or neo-Nazi group.
You are welcome to disparage my political beliefs as much as you wish. Such makes me no less American.
I've never said that that you weren't born an American or claimed that you weren't an American citizen.
If my soul had been born in China or Mexico and gone to America I would have given such away. Grammatical failings? Oddly, it is people born elsewhere, like China or Mexico, who often speak the most impeccable English. They take pride in such, which is more than I can say for many people born and raised here.
Quote:If a fascist ran as Democrat would you be able to identify them or notice them.
Yes! Both David Duke and Tom Metzger are fascists (KKK) and ran as Democrats. I would find them so abominable that I would vote against them, if necessary, for someone who offers a return to the social norms of the Gilded Age as the only viable alternative. We got out of the ethos of the Gilded Age without the calamity of totalitarianism and catastrophic wars that I associate with fascist regimes. Life may be miserable for the weak and helpless in a new Gilded Age, but Americans usually grow out of that. Fascism sends people who can't get out fast enough to concentration camps and killing sites, and starts wars for glory and profit that end in ruin and national disgrace.
Having read The Man in the High Castle, I came to recognize that in reality the fascists failed due to their atrocities and that a few historians have recognized. It is good alternative fiction in its genre, but I still see the Anglo-American alliance winning in the end in part because it has the good Jewish scientists, creative people, and entrepreneurs on its side. I can imagine an Axis victory over the United States and Britain -- but that requires an inversion of the identity of Good and Evil in historical reality. A Klan-dominated America and a Britain dominated by something like the BUF lose the war to a counter-historical 'good' Germany and Japan. A hint: Konrad Adenauer and Sir Winston Churchill were similar in ideology and political skill. A second hint: the Rommel Plan that revives the economy of the eastern half of the United States resembles the New Deal as did the Marshall Plan in Europe. In my scenario, the BUF and a Vichy-like regime in France collapse in the wake of a German offensive in the West after invading the Netherlands and Switzerland to which Germany has made guarantees. I have Churchill seizing power in a conservative revolution, suing for peace, and getting generous terms for Britain. Germany might need an ally against the Ku Kluxist regime in America, and it would be a good idea to have U-Boat bases in the British colonies and the British fleet on hand in the event of a war with the Soviet Union.
The Klan has the same objects of hatred as did the Nazis, and all that kept it from committing the genocide on the scale that the Nazis did is that it never achieved power in America.
Quote:How many Americans would let of a Constitutional right/value for a blue value or trade a Constitutional right/value for a blue value or let go of their beliefs/ignore their own beliefs for a blue these days?
There is no Constitutional right to cheap labor, low taxes, or soft regulations (as in 'pollute at will'), or for that matter, the right to possess firearms that have no sporting value or while unfit (a lack of intelligence, morals, or sanity) to possess them. Even the Second Amendment has the militia clause which I interpret to imply that persons that no militia would want -- like idiots, lunatics, criminals, addicts, or habitual drunkards. One does not join a militia for the fun of it; its objectives are simply to serious. Winning matters more than does inclusion.
Quote:You mentioned fallacy, how many fallacy's do you think I've seen, dealt with, challenged, dismissed or proven to be wrong and inaccurate and so forth over the last decade. Thousands? PB, I don't need a teacher at this point in my life.
You simply restate your premises, which refutes nothing. A racist doing what you do (and racists are the easiest people to refute) what you would do is to start with the assumption that blacks are uniformly inadequate and would have as a proof the recapitulation of your premise. I would have plenty of counter-arguments... that plenty of blacks have achieved greatly, that lesser performance represents disadvantages in economics and public services, and that 'race' is ambiguous in America. A racist would begin with serial-killer Alton Coleman (Ted Bundy without the wit and superficial charm, and lesser intellect -- and black) and end with Alton Coleman. I would have Barack Obama, who is nearly-half white -- surprise his mother was 1/16 black) and demonstrate that without the disabilities that many American blacks have faced in the past he has achieved the Highest Office in the Land and done it well. The racist returns to the loathsome Alton Coleman, an example of pure and unattractive criminality.
Quote:I could use a grammar skill brush up and probably some more book reading instead of doing other interesting things or important stuff related to actual leadership position and actual management/financial management and social activities and watching interesting cable series and informative movies or series on cable TV channels or spending time here showing Americans/foreigners what blues are really like and what Republican voters actually stand for and what Democrats should expect if they don't tighten up the reigns (sic!) on their own.
You are out of your league here. The Dunning-Krueger effect strikes again!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.