11-01-2017, 01:24 AM
(10-31-2017, 10:51 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote:(10-29-2017, 12:20 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: > It does not, however, make China socialist. Socialism is an
> economic system, and what's relevant is GDP and similar economic
> measures, not political repression.
I completely disagree. There's no such thing as socialism or
capitalism in the economic sense you claim.
Since socialism and capitalism are purely economic concepts, you might as well quit using the words, then.
Quote:Going beyond the abstract to real life, controlling a business versus
owning it is a distinction without a difference. The real life
meanings of socialism and capitalism have to do with government control
vs freedom.
The whole point of Capitalism is that a person running a business can
make decisions based on his objectives and his view of the
marketplace. If his objective is simply profit, or if it's to use his
business to help minorities or Christians or poor people in
underdeveloped countries, or if it's to build a real estate empire, he
can do that in a capitalist society, and either succeed or fail on his
own abilities.
To the contrary, the point of capitalism is economic efficiency through competition. In principal this rules out any motive except profit, since the success of capitalism depends on the fact that inefficient, unprofitable businesses must fail.
The freedom of capitalism is that, within this profit motive, one is free to optimize one's business to the greatest degree possible free of governmental interference - which China largely allows - and also, freedom to spend the profits as one desires, including helping minorities or Christians or poor people in underdeveloped countries. But that's a matter of what one does with the money after it's personal money, not about running businesses.
Quote:So China and Nazi Germany share National Socialism, and to say that
China is a capitalistic society, while America is a Socialist country
just shows how moronic the political discourse has become.
Stripping out the economic terms, since you think economics is irrelevant, you're just saying China and Germany are both nationalist. That's true, but under Trump, the US is also nationalist - and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. You're just citing "Nazi Germany" for emotional effect, making a content free nondistinction.
Quote:(10-29-2017, 12:20 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: > China is basically a capitalist dictatorship, not a socialist
> dictatorship.
The term "capitalist dictatorship" is an oxymoron, because capitalism
implies freedom to make business decisions. If you want a term to use
that's not an abstract fantasy or oxymoron, then use Hitler's term
National Socialism since that now has a well-known historical
definition.
As amply explained, China is more capitalist than the US in the economic sense of the word "capitalist", which is the only sense of the word.
But stripping out the economic terms, since you object to economics, we're left with my statement that China is a basically a dictatorship. hat it does share with Nazi Germany and not with the US. But it's stupid to say that makes it "identical" with Nazi Germany - even if you think the Soviet Union was also "identical" to Nazi Germany since it was also a dictatorship - since the economic system is fundamentally different.
Spot on regarding your responses to pbrower2a and rds, though.
