08-04-2019, 03:00 PM
** 04-Aug-2019 Cathar Crusade
I read a couple of sources on the subject, and it seems to follow a
familiar pattern. The Cathars became a populist religion that began
in the Awakening era and became popular and spread through the
Unraveling era. The Catholic Church first used peaceful means
("persuasion") to stop the spread, but those failed. Then there were
small local clashes. The sizes of the clashes grew.
It appears that the Regeneracy occurred in in 1224 when King Louis
VIII entered the war on the side of the Church, followed by King Louis
IX in 1226. The Cathars were crushed and forced to surrender by 1229,
leading to a "Treaty of Paris." This appears to be the crisis climax.
After that, the Inquisition took over, which would be the kind of
thing that happens in a First Turning Recovery Era. There were still
clashes, with the most notable occurring in 1244 and 1255. "The last
known Cathar burning occurred in 1321."
Here are the sources I read:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent...an_Crusade
https://www.ancient.eu/Albigensian_Crusade/
http://www.cathar.info/cathar_wars.htm
The analysis that I wrote above makes sense and appears to be correct,
and as you say, it does seem to be a "pre-modern genocide," but
there's a lot missing from it. In particular, what's needed is to
identify the preceding generational crisis war, and why it led to the
rise and spread of the Cathars during the Awakening and Unraveling
eras.
In particular, who are the Cathars? What's their history? Are they
an ethnic group? A geographic group? Did they speak a different
language? Have a different skin color or appearance? What happened
to them in the preceding crisis war? What do they have in common that
caused them to form an identity group based on the Cathar heresy?
A complete analysis would require going back a couple of crisis wars,
and show what led up to the Cathar Crusade.
Next, what happened to the Cathars after that? Maybe their heresy
religion disappeared, but the people didn't disappear. What role did
they play in the crisis war that followed the Cathar Crusade?
This is the difference between ordinary historical accounts versus
generational analyses. An ordinary historical account that any
historian might write just says something happened on a certain date
or in a certain decade, and lists names, dates and places. A
generational analysis has to include the flow of generations and
identity groups through multiple generational eras over two or three
centuries, to show how one era leads to the next.
A generational analysis is clearly a lot more complicated than a
simple historical account that a historian typically writes. If you
want to carry this further, I suggest just reading 20 or 30 more
relevant sources. My experience is that once you've read enough stuff
from different political points of view, the generational events and
eras become very clear, and everything falls into place.
Trevor Wrote:> I've been doing a bit of reading and I would say that the Cathar
> Crusade, lasting from 1209 to 1229, cannot be anything other than
> a crisis war. It's by far the most brutal of the Crusades despite
> being all but forgotten now. Many scholars describe it as a
> pre-modern genocide.
> This really requires more reading but from my analysis, the scale
> of the atrocities and the long-term consequences indicate a crisis
> war.
I read a couple of sources on the subject, and it seems to follow a
familiar pattern. The Cathars became a populist religion that began
in the Awakening era and became popular and spread through the
Unraveling era. The Catholic Church first used peaceful means
("persuasion") to stop the spread, but those failed. Then there were
small local clashes. The sizes of the clashes grew.
It appears that the Regeneracy occurred in in 1224 when King Louis
VIII entered the war on the side of the Church, followed by King Louis
IX in 1226. The Cathars were crushed and forced to surrender by 1229,
leading to a "Treaty of Paris." This appears to be the crisis climax.
After that, the Inquisition took over, which would be the kind of
thing that happens in a First Turning Recovery Era. There were still
clashes, with the most notable occurring in 1244 and 1255. "The last
known Cathar burning occurred in 1321."
Here are the sources I read:
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent...an_Crusade
https://www.ancient.eu/Albigensian_Crusade/
http://www.cathar.info/cathar_wars.htm
The analysis that I wrote above makes sense and appears to be correct,
and as you say, it does seem to be a "pre-modern genocide," but
there's a lot missing from it. In particular, what's needed is to
identify the preceding generational crisis war, and why it led to the
rise and spread of the Cathars during the Awakening and Unraveling
eras.
In particular, who are the Cathars? What's their history? Are they
an ethnic group? A geographic group? Did they speak a different
language? Have a different skin color or appearance? What happened
to them in the preceding crisis war? What do they have in common that
caused them to form an identity group based on the Cathar heresy?
A complete analysis would require going back a couple of crisis wars,
and show what led up to the Cathar Crusade.
Next, what happened to the Cathars after that? Maybe their heresy
religion disappeared, but the people didn't disappear. What role did
they play in the crisis war that followed the Cathar Crusade?
This is the difference between ordinary historical accounts versus
generational analyses. An ordinary historical account that any
historian might write just says something happened on a certain date
or in a certain decade, and lists names, dates and places. A
generational analysis has to include the flow of generations and
identity groups through multiple generational eras over two or three
centuries, to show how one era leads to the next.
A generational analysis is clearly a lot more complicated than a
simple historical account that a historian typically writes. If you
want to carry this further, I suggest just reading 20 or 30 more
relevant sources. My experience is that once you've read enough stuff
from different political points of view, the generational events and
eras become very clear, and everything falls into place.
