02-22-2017, 08:21 PM
(02-22-2017, 07:30 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:OK, clarity is good. Let's see what we can do.(02-22-2017, 04:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: TRUMP MOVES ON DEPORTATIONS
People's Action <manager@ourfuture.org>
Trump’s Homeland Security sets policy to allow for increased deportations. NYT:
“Documents released on Tuesday by the Department of Homeland Security revealed the broad scope of the president’s ambitions: to publicize crimes by undocumented immigrants; strip such immigrants of privacy protections; enlist local police officers as enforcers; erect new detention facilities; discourage asylum seekers; and, ultimately, speed up deportations … For now, so-called Dreamers … will not be targeted unless they commit crimes [but] millions of immigrants in the country illegally now face a far greater likelihood of being discovered, arrested and eventually deported.”
Mexico pushes back. Politico:
“The Trump administration riled Mexican officials by choosing Tuesday — on the eve of visits by the U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly to Mexico City — to release sweeping guidelines on deportations and a border wall … It also could hurt America’s ability to gain Mexico’s cooperation on enforcing the new guidelines … When it comes to deportations, for example, ‘you can’t just leave people in the middle of a bridge — this has to be negotiated with the Mexicans,’ said [a U.S.] diplomat…”
Deportations could hurt economy. Bloomberg:
“…one study [is] suggesting that removing all of them would cost the economy as much as $5 trillion over 10 years … [The plan] would hit industries that already complain of worker shortages …”
And housing market. Bloomberg:
“Legal and otherwise, immigrants, long a pillar of growth in homebuying, are no longer feeling the warm welcome and optimism necessary for their biggest purchase … A third of the 11 million unauthorized immigrants in the U.S. live in a home that they or a family member or friend own … New arrivals are expected to account for more than a third of growth of homeowners this decade …
“White House creates confusion about future of Trump’s travel ban” reports Politico:
“The Justice Department told the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals last week that Trump will ‘rescind…and replace’ the original order … But White House press secretary Sean Spicer said at the conclusion of his daily briefing Tuesday that Trump will not rescind the original order. Instead, the first order is being updated … His statements seemed to leave open the possibility that there could be two orders in effect at once — a situation that could complicate efforts to defend the new order in court.”
Speaker Ryan visits border today. Politico:
“The visit comes just weeks before Trump will formally ask Congress for a boatload of money to fund construction of the wall … While waiting on the president’s request, which could reach as much as $20 billion, Republican leaders have discussed moving a border security bill … [But] Trump and Homeland Security have not even finalized their own plan … Democrats on the Congressional Border Caucus, meanwhile, are on a counter-mission, hosting a series of meetings in border towns about how Trump’s wall will harm [their] communities.”
Let's get to clarity on this.
Quote:1. Proper wording. If somebody crosses the border, that person is an illegal alien and needs to be shipped back to the country of origin. Eric, those people are breaking the law. My ancestors from the Åland Islands came to the US legally. I even have copies of their immigration records on hand. I do not like anarchy in any form. The US is a country where the principle of "a nation of laws" is applicable.
Illegality is not popular. However, proper perspective is needed. Illegal border crossing is a misdemeanor, as far as I can tell. Rounding up illegal aliens without a proper hearing, as Trump seems to be doing, is also illegal. Trump promised to deport criminal illegals. I'd rather he kept his promise than to do what he's been doing. But, fat chance of Drump keeping his promises. The Republicans would rather impose an expensive and cruel deportation than to pass the real bipartisan immigration reform that was offered, so that illegals could pay a fine and qualify for the citizenship they want.
Quote:2. Publicize crimes. Easy, I agree with the Trump administration on this one point. The US "inn" should have a sign with "no vacancy". Again, global warming will certainly affect the carrying capacity of the territory known as the "United States". There is no frontier. There are no job vacancies. The US needs to learn from the clusterfuck in Europe. A wall is humane, while a mine field isn't. Now, I agree the war on drugs is messing with Mexico's internal affairs and should be ended. I have no problem with planned parenthood providing birth control services worldwide due to population overshoot.
Again, illegal aliens are not threatening your jobs. Legal ones; possibly. But white people don't do the jobs illegals do. And they are needed for the economy to work. That's a consideration. Mass deportation could cause a recession. This time, the USA has no tools to get out of one anymore. Great recessions hurt everybody. Immigration is not to blame for our economic woes. Immigrants power the economy.
Quote:3. Illegal aliens / privacy concerns. OK, they can just stop coming to the US to begin with, OK? They are not citizens.
4. Deportation. Yes, Mexico has a point. All illegal aliens need to be deported to their country of origin, not just a default to Mexico.
5. Worker shortages: What the hell is this shit all about? Here's what will happen if the supply of illegals is shut off.
a. The employers will have to raise wages to get American citizens to take said jobs. The other option is that said employers must automate said jobs with robots. Why the fuck should I have to pay for illegals alien children to attend school? I'm already hard up.
Education helps you economically. Not just your own; anyone's who is here. Wages would have to go very high for Americans to take those jobs, assuming they ever would. That would strain the economy too. Illegals already get enough from those jobs to make a decent living. That doesn't seem to be the issue. Americans don't pay more for goods than they have to; raising the price of food sky high would drive American farmers out of business. Just more outsourcing. The Dream Act? Much better. Just impose a fine and require then to work.
Quote:6. I do agree with Mexico that they should not pay for the wall. The US has an interest in said wall. Mexico does not. I have no issue paying extra taxes to get the wall done.
That was just a campaign slogan to arouse the crowd. Demagogues do that.
Quote:7. I do not want to subsidize employers through taxes employers hiring labor on the cheap. Fuck them. They can either pay up wages, buy robots, or just go bust. I do not want to subsidize these leaches.
Not sure what you are subsidizing. All workers should get what they are entitled to, legal or not.
Quote:8. The same goes for the H1-B rot. Shut this fucking bullshit down, and do it now! H1-B's fucked me out of a job. Damn outsourcers and high tech industry to hell. Any company that uses H1-B's to replace US citizens with H1-B's to can just go fuck themselves. I hate,hate,hate, the H1-B program. Shut it down, shut it down. I want these greedy motherfucker tech companies to pay.
I understand your feelings. Maybe it should be shut down. But if Americans are going to take those jobs, they need to be qualified and educated for them. But as George Carlin points out correctly, the PTB don't want an educated American public; that's not in their interest. So, we're stuck.
Quote:8. Housing. As I always said, housing is a consumer durable, not a fucking asset. If anyone is counting on their house to be an asset, they're just a fucking moron who buys into the "house is an asset" propaganda.
Quite correct; no comment.