The Coronavirus

[Eric the Green]

(04-28-2020, 11:37 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(04-28-2020, 04:19 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: It is not that the US is resisting masks, exactly; but that we are being asked to wear them, and yet they are not even being made available. A competent government and society would have had them available in every store and public building for free all over the country. Instead it has been 2 months, and masks are not only not free but not even made available at any store or on amazon, and people are somehow getting masks by making their own in some mysterious way.

Obviously, it is exactly the shutdowns which were employed on the west pacific rim which allowed them to control the virus, while the USA, UK and Italy that resisted shutdowns for too long suffered ongoing and deepening sickness.

Socially, I get a lot of pushback when I mention masks, from both the right and the left; it really seems like people on both sides of the political spectrum are sufficiently racist against east Asians to want to avoid doing things that they are doing successfully.

This also applies to shutdowns; in fact, no Pacific Rim nation has shut down.  Yet, people - including yourself - assume that they have, because they've been brainwashed into thinking shutdowns are the solution, rather than masks.

I do agree that lack of mask availability is also an issue.  Masks are available online, including on Amazon, but the delivery times are long.  Reusable masks are available on Etsy.  People are making them if they know how to sew - not all that mysterious.  But you're right; if the government had been pushing masks from day 1, the economy would have responded, and they'd be broadly available now.  And I also agree they should have been available in the first place; people should probably be wearing them for flu season even if there were no Covid-19.

I don't find the prospect of making my own mask inviting. I would think those who make masks would know which fabrics actually work. Also, I don't have the "eyes" through which to string a strap. I looked on amazon recently, and now not only do masks take 3 weeks to deliver (and I did not know if they would not be needed after 3 weeks) but now the best ones are not available at all. I checked at my local pharmacies and they have none and don't know when they will have them. So it remains a big mystery to me where they are getting them. I see emails selling them, but I don't trust those.

I don't know about pushback against wearing them; most people are willing. Except of course for those right wing gun toters financed by Betsy DeVoss.

You do seem to have your own idea of "shut down." Most nations and US states have shut down non-essential businesses and issued shelter-in-place orders. That certainly includes those who have been the most successful at controlling the virus, which are mostly Pacific Rim nations: China, South Korea, New Zealand, Australia and Thailand. Italy and the UK shut down-- too late to avoid a cascade of sickness and death. This is slowly declining in Italy, perhaps because of the shutdown, it's hard to tell for sure. The USA similarly has done this in most states, also too-late now to avoid catastrophe, but some red states are lifting these shut-downs and stay-at-home orders too soon. There will be a gradual opening up everywhere, but smart blue states and states with smart governors will open up when the science says it's safe, not when Trump says it's safe. During these "shutdowns" people can go outside and exercize or walk if social distance is observed and crowds avoided.

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(04-28-2020, 03:48 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: The problem is that social distancing is just too tough when people shop, work out, get groomed, get a tattoo, go to a bar or restaurant, etc. It would be nice if we can open up, but it needs to be done carefully.

I agree that being careful is a good idea.  That's why I advocate adding masks when opening up.  There's actually evidence that, unlike lockdowns, masks work.

It all works.

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(04-28-2020, 03:39 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-27-2020, 11:45 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: It's a false dichotomy.  We don't have to look for middle ground.  The statistics say that shutdowns don't do anything.

Sure, if your let your ideology trump the statistics.  The difference between California and the east is prompt shutdown.

Washington State never shut down.  No, prompt shutdown is not the difference.  There is in fact no more evidence that shutdowns help than that they hurt.  All there is is speculation.  But the speculation can go both ways.  For example, preventing people from getting out makes vitamin D deficiency more likely, which would reduce immune resistance to Covid-19.  It prevents people from getting exercise, which hurts cardiovascular health and makes people more likely to die if they do get Covid-19.

Let's face it:  shutdowns were a political play so politicians could look like they were doing something about the problem, without having to go to the trouble of first figuring out what things would actually be useful if done.

Many politicians and the president failed to do all of the above. They did not issue shutdowns and social distancing rules in time, they did not provide protective equipment and masks in time, they did not and still do not provide testing and tracking. The feds alone can do this adequately. And waiting to "figure things out" was the problem. That reminds me of what Trump said when he issued his first policy as president, his travel bans which he claimed were needed until "we find out just what's going on!" Remember that? There was never anything to find out; it was an excuse to appeal to his xenophobic fans.

Washington State did "shut down," of course, as I described it above. So did California. Both are doing better per capita than other states that were hit hard. They were #1 and #2 originally in total cases, and now CA is #5 and Washington #16 in total cases during the pandemic. Santa Clara County CA was the first in the nation to get infected, and now its total case curve is downward. It's not even in the top 50 counties anymore in total cases.