07-04-2017, 12:27 PM
(07-04-2017, 12:18 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(07-03-2017, 11:27 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:(07-03-2017, 03:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(07-01-2017, 09:49 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:(07-01-2017, 06:02 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But you don't seem to deal with that level of fact. Fact seems irrelevant to you. If something is unpleasant to your world view, you will call it a lie, with absolutely no attempt to fact check.
I could be wrong, but I doubt Eric would dispute the facts. I suspect his position is that he believes the violence on the part of the left is necessary and justified, up to and including the attempted assassination of Scalise.
What Bob does is, whenever I express something he disagrees with, and disagree with him on facts, he tends to "demonize" me as someone who ALWAYS is unable to deal with facts, if they offend my cherished world view.
The NRA (or at least its current leadership; not indeed necessarily every member) deals only in lies, and no, I will not debate anyone on this topic. (and I agree with mikebert's statements above about them; bravo!)
No, I don't think violence is justified-- unless, when a nation or its allies are under attack, it MIGHT be; or police restraining criminals in a lawful manner (sadly, often not the case today especially in black neighborhoods). No, I did not approve of the attempted assassination of Scalise, and I prayed for his recovery. I DO hope that he and others of his ilk are voted out of office. A faint hope in his case.
Interesting. So where do you draw the line?
- Do you object to protesters who beat people up who are trying to enter a Trump rally?
- Do you object to protesters who prevent Milo whatshisname from speaking by breaking windows and burning cars?
- Do you object to protesters who block interstate highways to try to get more news coverage?
If none of these, how do you think the crisis will be resolved?
I said where I draw the line.
I object to protesters who beat people up and break windows, although I note the fact that Trump is the first major USA candidate who encouraged his followers to beat people up.
I don't object so much to protesters who block traffic, although I suppose if I were stuck in a traffic jam caused by protesters, I don't know what I'd think.
I decided to drive to a small protest rally on Jan 21, and wondered if they would block the street I was on while I was driving to their rally. I didn't really know much about the group putting it on.
They did go into the streets, shouting "whose street? Our street!" but I stayed on the sidewalk. Noone was really blocked though. They kept moving. The police came out in force and arrested a few of them. Over-reaction, I thought. But some people of the same group back in DC did break windows on inauguration day, so I guess the police concluded that our group would do that. A false conclusion; this group was roudy, but not destructive at all.
The next day I rode my bike over to the famous "women's march." It was bigger than I expected, and the street was so crowded that it took me a while to get my bike through it to where I could lock it up in the rack. But no problem with the police that time with the people crowding up the whole street.
It does now appear that the 4T will involve some violence; perhaps a serious rebellion. Whoever violently rebels, I predict, will lose. Elections are still the key, and your side has a very easy time getting people to buy into your slogans. so it's gonna be tough indeed to get this country moving in the right direction after 40 years of blatant nonsense. Secession is a possibility, and that sort of rebellion may be able to succeed.
Thanks. Sounds like we're on the same page regarding the ethics of protests. Blocking interstates is risky and illegal, but not an unethical way to draw attention to a cause; however, in keeping with the Gandhi tradition of peaceful protest, the protesters should go quietly when arrested, which is legitimate activity on the part of the state to keep the roads clear.
I'm still hoping most of the fourth turning violence will be overseas rather than domestic.