The Maelstrom of Violence

[Kinser79]

(09-01-2017, 03:20 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I can sympathize with blacks and homosexuals who have been stereotyped and the victim of prejudice.

More importantly can you sympathize with both groups being overtly told they are victims for the purpose of control, exploitation and victimization?  That is precisely what the left does since the worst racism I've ever experienced was from other blacks and the worst homophobia I've ever experienced was at the hands of other queers.

Quote: You can say that it isn't my fight.

It's not.  A white female student once asked Malcolm X what she could do to help blacks in their struggle.  He told her "nothing".  To be frank, if there was a race problem in this country there is nothing that white people could do or give to black people that would have any value, any merit or any appreciation.  Why?  Because, something given has no value.

Quote: I don’t have a duty to go out and correct these things.

You don't.  Mostly the problems the black man faces in the US today are problems of their own making.  The problems faced today are not because we have a big government institution intentionally and deliberately oppressing anyone on the basis of their race (excluding Affirmative Action which is actually oppressive to Whites and Asians far more than it is to Blacks or Latinos).

Rather these problems are the result of poor choices individually and a culture that promotes as good the most ignorant, criminal and vile aspects of our society.

Quote: However, quite arguably, I have a duty not to be part of the problem.  (See Thoreau’s Civil Disobedience for the logic.)  If I have stereotypes and prejudices I feel an urge to stifle them, not to act on them to the best of my ability.  It is akin to tribal thinking.  One route to self improvement is to avoid vile stereotypes and the accompanying prejudice.

Political correctness is not a matter of self-improvement, rather it is a matter of policing the speech of others.  This policing is done in the name of not hurting people's feelings.  You know what though?  Some people need to have their feelings hurt.  They need to be offended because that is the only thing that will get through to them.

Al Sharpton said this clip offended him.  You know what offends me?  Al Sharpton because I think that if MLK were alive today he'd see what has happened to the group he fought for and what they have become.  I think Malcolm X would be much the same.  And for the record I'm far closer to Malcolm than MLK.

Quote:This is not a universal urge.  There are neo confederates and neo nazis among others who will play with prejudice and embrace tribal thinking with glee.

There are.  There are also racist black groups too. BLM is the largest.  Largely speaking in 2013 according to the SPLC there were some 5000-8000 Klan in the US divided into 130 different groups.  There are around the same number of Neo-Nazi groups.  The rest of the so-called Alt-Right consists of Libertarians, Civic Nationalists (which can be all colors) and Kekistanis (I consider myself both of the latter groups).  

Given the choice between dealing with at most 16K neo-nazis and Klan vs every third black person wanting to riot and loot, I'll pick the one which isn't around 4% of the population thanks.  Neo-nazis and the Klan together only make up 0.00005333...% of the population.

Quote:I’m a boomer, however.  Boomer hatred is common.  There are many people here who have boomer stereotypes and exercise boomer prejudices quite openly.  This is often not though as important as racial, cultural or gender stereotypes,  but it is comparable.  Some people build stereotypes and exercise prejudices.

Many boomer sterotypes found on this board are quite accurate.  Cynic Hero not withstanding.  I think his deal is he is mentally ill or something.  He wouldn't be the only person on this board with a mental illness either so I don't want anyone getting on a high horse because of that--and I mean real mental illnesses not MFers running around pretending they have autism cause they're really just a feckless shiftless loser.

Quote:I’m not totally innocent of this.  Thing is, part of being a blue boomer suggests trying to fight such things as prejudice and stereotypes.  Still, there are thing I do think of the younger generations.  Much of them fall under the category of “they do know know, they were not there.”  They have not felt the lynchings, bled over the coat hanger abortions, or carried a live draft card.  That takes some of the edge off the stereotypical thinking of the young, but it doesn’t help at a detailed level if someone is locked in, unwilling to listen, if someone lacks the imagination to figure it out.

I do not have to have been enslaved to have felt in my skin the injustice of such a system.  I do not have to have a vagina in order to understand that not having access to a medical procedure rarely if ever taken up lightly is vitally important.  And I don't need to be hanged by a mob to know that all forms of vigilante justice is unacceptable in a country that aims to be civilized.  As for the draft card, well I volunteered to serve in the military so I don't see the point.  As far as I'm concerned pacifists need to have their heads caved in with a bat, because they are the first to surrender to any fascist, communist or foreign threat.  I take my line of thinking from Patrick Henry, a white man:

Patrick Henry Wrote:Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Quote:And generational gaps are quite akin to cultural gaps, political gaps, racial gaps, or gender gaps.  Humans are quite good at stereotypes, hatred, tribal thinking and hating the other guy.  I’d suggest that getting involved in any of them involves you in identity politics.  It is very human to divide between Us and Them, seeking to oppress Them in one way or another.  Simply, if you think you are joining an identity conflict without joining an identity conflict, think again.  Examine the mirror closely.

I would argue that politics is the result of culture, which is partially derived from identity.  Some of these identities are innate to an individual, some of them are matters of choice.  In America politics derived from innate idenities are stupid, each American has an overriding identity stronger and more powerful than being black or white or something else, or being a man or a woman (there is no something else there no matter what the snowflakes try to tell you), of being a Christian or a Jew or Muslim or an atheist or something else.  That identity is American.

That identity informs me that Thomas Jefferson and even Robert E. Lee are as important to my make up as my 3X great-grandfather who was a slave.

Quote:I see Kinser as quite legitimately fighting racial and sexual problems.  That’s not directly my fight.  Doesn’t mean I won’t pull the verbal equivalent of a trigger if someone wanders into my sights.  Even then, if Kinser wants me to not fight his fights, I won’t.  That doesn’t mean I don’t have opinions and won’t voice my opinions on the matter generally.  Kinser is hardly the only one with such problems, his isn’t the only approach, he hasn’t the authority to enforce that his approach is to be the only one.

1.  I am.  I've had to deal with a great deal of hatred directed at the two most important people in my life.  Both because they are white, and one because he is a man.
2.  It isn't your fight to fight.  I don't want you involved in it.  Mostly this issue is directly between myself and the male human who donated his genetic material to my creation.
3.  I'm not interested in telling you to not say whatever you want.  If you're not inciting others to violence, crime or panic as far as I'm concerned your right to freedom of speech is absolute.  That applies to the most detestable person imaginable as the most lovable person imaginable.
4.  The methods by which I engage in this struggle is built upon experience.  I've tried many things, some of them dreadfully stupid, others more useful.  What I do know is that if the goal is to limit prejudice and discrimination then the solution cannot be found in "reverse" prejudice and discrimination.

I put reverse into quotes because from my perspective there isn't a reverse.  Discriminating against someone for being white is as bad as doing so because they are black.  Unless we're talking about my bedroom.  Apart from myself, and my cat (Espresso--he's a rescue cat and his fur is black, he also likes to kill things and put them into my shoes) Apartheid is in full effect.

Quote:And I’ll be muttering about his not having been there, he didn’t know what was necessary, he didn’t see the problems of the time.  That’s the real essence of generational prejudices.  Every generation is apt to pick up different lessons learned.  It is better to try to learn the other generation’s lessons than to practice stereotyping, prejudice and hate.

And I'll be muttering at you that you've not experienced the things I have either.  That you don't know what is necessary.  That you weren't there.  So everything you're going to do you'll be getting right back.