The Maelstrom of Violence

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-19-2017, 12:18 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(09-17-2017, 09:32 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-17-2017, 12:45 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-17-2017, 01:06 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: It seems like you, as well as the Nazi and Confederates, are embracing harm.

Implying that Kinser is basically a Nazi, as you just did, looks like hate speech to me.  But hey, it's always been clear that you're fine with hate speech when you're the one speaking.

He is simply Eric Hoffer's True Believer, attracted to extremist, ruthless causes. He was recently a Stalinist and is now a Trump supporter. I can see him becoming a fanatical Muslim once he finds President Trump irrelevant or discredited.

Unlikely.  Muslims want to throw people like me off roofs.  Since I don't have a desire to test the theory "fags can't fly" I don't find their ideology attractive.

OK.  Let's assume no racial or gender group is good at flying.  Other than that, you seem to have evaded the question.  Of course, the question wasn't really asked well.

How to you tell a True Believer from on who believes in his world view?  It seems pretty safe to say that everyone believes in his world view.

Part of it would be whether there is an element of superiority or vileness to it.  "Mine is the master race.  Some should wait in line for the genocide machine."  "Some races should endure slavery as that is their proper place."  "Only those with a demonstrated ability to fly should be tolerated.  This should be tested immediately."  This immediate judgement, this prejudice, is one quick clue that somebody is off the deep end.

Another criteria would be a definition of 'harm' similar to that applied to a Bill of Rights.  If someone proclaims they are members of the sole race suitable to be the world's policemen, or a race which has a manifest destiny, or a race that bears a 'burden' to rule, color me dubious.  I'd be looking for anything that might resemble harm, as I would suspect a lot of people would be.  That sort of claim of superiority has been over done.

On the other hand Hoffer actually advocates nationalism, the idea that pride of place is essential to getting ahead, to create anything new.  Let us suppose that Americans are ahead of the game in education.  This might mean more places of higher education, more students ready to apply themselves, more jobs ready for those who do apply themselves.  To a great degree, no one is getting hurt if this is truly a strength.  (Let's ignore, for the moment, more people prepared to a specific job than will be hired within the specialty.  I need an example of a positive strength.)

Could I have examples of nationalistic virtues?  Can groups claim they are good at something, have a reason for their pride?  "I can fly!  (Flap. Flap.)  Look, I can... (Thud.)"

By declaring a people have a strength, a superiority, and that they are not out to hurt anyone, can one pretend that certain true believers are not fanatical True Believers?

I have a feeling that the notion of tribal thinking, tribal morality, could be involved.  If person or group is out to hurt someone for their own advantage, should this be considered OK if the person hurt is of another tribe?  I can see the guy from the other tribe getting indignant.

Then, there is the degree of ideological blindness.  You see a lot of thinking of the pattern "all people of (insert group here) are (insert stereotype here).  Often it isn't true.  Often harm is involved in assuming it is true.  Is it important that a world view should be clear of that type of stereotype?

Just chasing my tail.  I have an interesting perspective that needs hammering down.

OK.  For a moment, let's assume an American progressive.  You might think one of the two...

1. He wants to build a strong community, with the government being a good tool.
   
2. What is he smoking?  Can I get some?
   

Then here comes a conservative. You might think one of the two...

1. He wants to build a strong community, but the government just messes it up.
   
2. What is he smoking?  Can I get some?
   

The above might prove only that America has a drug problem.