The Maelstrom of Violence

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-23-2017, 01:20 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-23-2017, 12:26 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Kinser

But you have called his councilor unqualified, himself a liar-predator, and maligned the motives of politicians.  To a great degree, you have done so without real evidence.  For the most part, you are running off stereotypes that come from your world view.  Rather than listen to the person who is at the center of the discussion, you assert your stereotypes as fact.  Your stereotypes become true because you assert them to be?

Don't assume that because that's your method of assessment, that Kinser is doing the same thing.  He does have data for his assessments, though he is also making some

Well, first, Kinser is pretty unique.  I don't think anyone is doing the same thing as Kinser.

But he did assume another poster liar and predator, where I would not.

Your case, you might begin to understand where I'm coming from.  I see you as having strong if questionable financial values.  Most every argument you make is from economics.  That's make it your clear center.  You argue a lot with those who believe quality of life ought to be move valued, more central.  I am one of the later.  As usual, I'd like to see a floor protecting that which is truly important.  I'd like to see everyone contribute to sharing risks and costs.

Intensely.

And, as usual, minds who value different things are not apt to be shifted.

Where is there a need to degrade and insult a person with different values?  Economics is important.  If we can't afford it, we shouldn't pretend we can.  If we have an extraordinary division of wealth, we can.  If someone is so obsessed with his own wealth he can not care for the other guy, there is a problem.

Is that where you are at?  It is where you seem to be at.  I can not be sure as you go silent rather than say where you are really at.  I have to judge you by the arguments made.

And when to go to insult?  I go when the other guy is clearly not listening and a sledgehammer is the only way to get attention.  Does it work?  No.  Is it sometimes irresistibly tempting?  Yes.

Back to Kinser.  On what grounds did he proclaim the councilor unqualified.  Is he qualified to judge.  Was he there to judge.  When Pbower gave a sincere view of where he was at, was Kinser ready to say liar.  Where did predator come from?  Is it possible that Pbower who has come to care about quality of life is just seeking quality of life?  Is Kinser ready to listen to what he is told, or are does reality force his twisted re telling?

Different people just pursue different things in different ways.  When this gets in the way of others achieving their very different goals, there is a clash.  You do have to draw a line somewhere.  Mine is often near the poverty line, with a nod to HDHR 25.  Those who care not about Americans forced below that line get grumbled at with the occasional touch of the useless sledge hammer.

Can people acknowledge the poverty line exists?  Can they acknowledge there is a floor that should be covered with safety nets?  It is hard to get people with strong selfish economic interests to acknowledge this.  If so, we can cover what needs to be covered and within reason let the wealthy grab for the rest.  If they want to take from those who do not have, there is a need to grumble.

One aspect of listening is learning what those who disagree with you sincerely want.  If given, we can afford some degree of dog eat dog after that.

(09-23-2017, 01:20 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-23-2017, 12:26 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But it seems wrong for you to feed your vile stereotype to one who lives otherwise.

You're projecting.

I don't think so.  Not here.  Tell me where.  Are you going to tell me that you don't make economic arguments a lot?  Is Kinser going to say he cares for all, not just his own tribe?  Does everyone think along the same pattern?  Values lock is not simply crediting people who agree with you with more intelligence.  You fight it by trying to understand and respect the other perspectives, though the latter is often hard.