The Maelstrom of Violence

[Kinser79]

(09-23-2017, 04:53 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(09-23-2017, 01:20 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Don't assume that because that's your method of assessment, that Kinser is doing the same thing.  He does have data for his assessments, though he is also making some

Well, first, Kinser is pretty unique.  I don't think anyone is doing the same thing as Kinser.

Oh please, you sound like you've never seen a black man who is conservative on some issues before. Which if you've ever seen a black man at all, you've probably seen a black man who is conservative on some issues.

Quote:But he did assume another poster liar and predator, where I would not.

So when you catch someone in a bald face lie they aren't a liar to you? And someone who is suckling at the government teat without actually working for said government isn't at the very least a parasite to you? Me thinks you need to look up the words liar and parasite. Mr. Dictionary is your friend.

Quote:Your case, you might begin to understand where I'm coming from.  I see you as having strong if questionable financial values.  Most every argument you make is from economics.  That's make it your clear center.  You argue a lot with those who believe quality of life ought to be move valued, more central.  I am one of the later.  As usual, I'd like to see a floor protecting that which is truly important.  I'd like to see everyone contribute to sharing risks and costs.

When it comes to Warren, he can answer as he sees fit. For me, I value liberty, particularly economic liberty far more than I do equality. Indeed I would go so far as to say that equality is the polar opposite of liberty. Given the choice between being free to make my own way, or being equally poor, equally stupid and equally degraded with everyone else.

Quote:Where is there a need to degrade and insult a person with different values?

I usually don't degrade and insult others regardless their values unless they demonstrate to me that they deserve it.

Quote:  Economics is important.  If we can't afford it, we shouldn't pretend we can.  If we have an extraordinary division of wealth, we can.  If someone is so obsessed with his own wealth he can not care for the other guy, there is a problem.

No. If we have a wide spread of incomes then that means that we need more economic freedom not some forced equality to some level. Socialism has failed EVERYWHERE it has been tried and that includes so-called Democratic Socialism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XgdtHewGR0

Quote:Back to Kinser.  On what grounds did he proclaim the councilor unqualified.

As stated in my previous post. The man's title is "councilor".

Quote:  Is he qualified to judge.  Was he there to judge.

Yes. I understand how titles work just like most adults of normal intelligence. No, but that is irrelevant.

 

Quote:When Pbower gave a sincere view of where he was at, was Kinser ready to say liar.  Where did predator come from?  Is it possible that Pbower who has come to care about quality of life is just seeking quality of life?  Is Kinser ready to listen to what he is told, or are does reality force his twisted re telling?

I have a hard time that PBR can be sincere about anything. As I've said previously, a man who lacks anything he would die for or kill for also lacks anything worth living for. You should watch the cartoon I linked to. But in case you missed it, PBR uses the natural empathy of other people against them to make them feel sorry for him so he can acquire something from them.

Quote:Different people just pursue different things in different ways.  When this gets in the way of others achieving their very different goals, there is a clash.  You do have to draw a line somewhere.  Mine is often near the poverty line, with a nod to HDHR 25.  Those who care not about Americans forced below that line get grumbled at with the occasional touch of the useless sledge hammer.

If the borders are controlled, and needless regulations lifted and taxes lowered just about everyone can find a job to lift them above the poverty line. For those able but unwilling to work I could care less if they starve. I'm not one to quote the Bible often but....

the apostle Paul Wrote:For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

2 Thessalonians 3:10

I would say that there are a few basic exceptions to that. Those too young to work, those too old to work, those too sick to work. Oh and going to school counts as work.

Quote:Can people acknowledge the poverty line exists?

Only a fool would make a claim that poverty does not exist.

Quote: Can they acknowledge there is a floor that should be covered with safety nets?

Then explain to me how that now that there is a welfare state in the US there is more poverty not less, and what is more is that there is more children in poverty not fewer. And that is before we get into the other factors are very socially important (single parenthood, etc, etc, etc).

 

Quote:It is hard to get people with strong selfish economic interests to acknowledge this.

I would not say that selfishness is inherently negative. But then again I subscribe to Master Morality anyway. See my posts on Nietzsche.

Quote: If so, we can cover what needs to be covered and within reason let the wealthy grab for the rest.  If they want to take from those who do not have, there is a need to grumble.

1. How can you take something from someone who doesn't possess that something? The Logic is weak with this one.

2. There is. I prescribe charity (religious or civic), family, and state/local government programs (if there are going to be any government programs at all).

Quote:One aspect of listening is learning what those who disagree with you sincerely want.  If given, we can afford some degree of dog eat dog after that.

Actually it is more expensive to eat dog food or cat food than i would be to buy a pouch of tuna at the local bodega. In fact to save money our vet told us that feeding the cat boiled chicken would serve them fine, as a bonus the chihuahua can eat it too. Buy a stewing hen, and boil the fuck out of it and we have both pet food and soup stock.

I strongly suspect you don't go to the grocery store in your household. The average can of pork and beans is far less than the average can of alpo. Never mind the fact that you could get corned beef hash which is essentially what dog food is for far less as well. And don't even get me started on the rice and beans diet.

I swear what is it with boomers and beans and rice being associated with poverty. I've experienced real poverty, that is when you have neither beans nor rice.

That being said, eating dog food on occasion is not recognized as being harmful.