The Maelstrom of Violence

[pbrower2a]

(01-06-2021, 10:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-06-2021, 07:06 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(01-06-2021, 06:00 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-06-2021, 04:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Are you at the Capitol, Classic Xer? Your boys are doing what you say they are going to do.

Nope. I just found out about it a little while ago. I hate to say it, I told you so. We can't have two sets of rules or double standard in this country. Oh, and all the other stuff that I've been warning you guys about is coming too. The ball is in your court. Welcome to the 4T. You people should reconsider the crazy shit you want them to do to keep power in their hands and the money flowing in your direction. You should be happy though. The GOP is dead. The GOP hasn't come to that realization yet but its dead.

1. Do you consider the takeover the Capitol building anything other than disgusting?

2. Do you still believe that the President was cheated of a victory?

3. Do you consider the response of the President weak?

4. Do you recognize that the essence of democracy is that those who lose the election recognizing the validity of their losses?

5. Do you have any strong evidence other than some gut feeling to believe that Trump was cheated? 

6. Do you repudiate political violence including disruption of normal process?

I don't view what happened today as being anymore disgusting than what I watched take place all over the country last summer.

Black Lives Matters protests were far more civilized and respectful than this. I'm not going to speak for opportunistic rioters, but I can assure you that many protesters brought cameras so that they could document any police brutality. Many of the non-violent protesters are generally sympathetic to the police except in incidents (to put it as tamely as possible) of excessive force that ultimately disserve the police who have a tough job to do. Video and still cameras ended up documenting criminal behavior by rioters and violent counter-protesters. Know well that the news media readily share video of criminal acts to law enforcement. We probably agree about looters, vandals, and those who committed assault. Arrest them, prosecute them, and imprison them. Where we differ is on the rightful use of law enforcement. You want it to exist to repress anything that you consider "un-American", as you see the word "American" in a narrower range of ethnicity, religious heritage, and ideology than I do. I see law enforcement as a necessity for protecting property rights, civil liberties, and personal safety of us all in America.    

Quote: As I told you before, I don't think/believe Biden won the election fair and square.

If you don't think or believe that Biden won the 2020 election "fair and square", then tell me which elections have been "fair and square" in America.  I have a favorite link that you can use for making your choices. 

https://uselectionatlas.org/

Is this (2020)

 Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Kamala D. Harris Democratic 81,284,778 51.27% 306 56.9% 
 Donald J. Trump Michael R. Pence Republican 74,224,501 46.82% 232 43.1%

somehow less decisive than this (1980)?

 Ronald Reagan George Bush Republican 43,903,230 50.75% 489 90.9%
 James Carter Walter Mondale Democratic 35,480,115 41.01% 49  9.1%
 John Anderson Patrick Lucey Independent 5,719,850 6.61% 0 0.0%

Or do you consider elections valid only when they go the way that you want them? 

51.27% to 46.2% looks like a bigger margin than 50.75% to 47.67%, I'd say. 

Polling was generally consistent for Trump from mid-2017 to very late in the 2020 campaign, when Trump came closer to winning than had seemed possible. 

Quote:Trump's response was adequate in my opinion. 

No, it was not. Trump told the rioters in the Capitol that they had been cheated of a Trump victory. The voting was over, but Donald Trump sought to use a mass rally to overturn the vote. Mike Pence and Mitch McConnell did their appointed, Constitutionally-defined roles. 



 

(Deutsche Welle)

Quote:I understand the long standing tradition that we have as nation but I'm also realistic enough to understand that if the Democrats don't respect the rule of law like most everyone else the tradition we've shared as a nation will come to an end.

Bullhist! Democrats were fully for the rule of law throughout the campaign and the electoral process. The only irregularity about this election is the clear and present danger of a pandemic. So that people could vote without undue danger many state legislatures voted to allow extensions of early and absentee voting. So let us suppose that some militia appears at a polling place and gives an implicit threat that those that it does not want voting will face dire consequences for voting. Any police chief would confront such a militia and give it the choice of dispersing by using the means that it used for getting where it is or being arrested and taken away by the police.  Figure that COVID-19 poses a similar danger to an African-American voter as does a KKK fascist wielding a rifle, camera, or noose. Of course I will say this about COVID-19: it seems to pose a threat to anyone irrespective of ethnic origin. The police cannot arrest SARS-2, the virus responsible for the respiratory disease, let alone transport it to a jail.

I am also satisfied that the means of ensuring a clean election unsuited to tampering are as good as they ever have been. Both Parties have insisted upon this, and both have implemented controls that make tampering with voting devices or materials, impersonation of voters, acceptance of votes from deceased voters, or intimidation of voters much more difficult. Democrats may have been unable to canvas voters as they usually do, which may have ensured that fewer Democrats got elected than might otherwise have been elected. -- due to COVID-19.

If there is any vote fraud, it is intimidation by COVID-19... a virus.  

Quote:I view both parties as equally responsible for what happened today.

Tell me who the Democrats were at the Trump rally, and tell me what Democrats illegally entered and occupied the Capitol building.  Capitol police, who are probably heavily Democratic, do not count. But all in all, Congress ratified who will be President as of January 20 in an uncharacteristically bipartisan manner..

Quote:Like I said, the GOP is dead. On the other hand, the Republican base is here to stay.

The GOP in which Jacob Javits, Charles Percy, Hugh Scott, William Milliken, and probably Everett Dirksen and Gerald Ford were welcome is dead. People of the demographics that liked Ike and were called "Rockefeller Republicans" are now heavily Democratic in their voting. Just recall my Eisenhower/Obama overlay. Republicans used to wipe the Democrats on the floor with people of above-average education; now Democrats do so with Republicans among people with above-average education. As late as 1964 Goldwater won among college-educated voters despite losing in a 60-40 landslide in the popular vote against "Au H2O". 

I'm not going to deny the reality of the Trump base and its likelihood of getting its favored candidate nominated as the Republican candidate for President in 2024. The Trump base is old and less-well educated. It is not being replenished adequately to win reliably in subsequent elections.  

Quote:Political violence had already been used several times before today which now makes it an option from here forward.

...an option likely to cause one to be taken away in a police squad car, of course whether immediately or after one is indicted (based perhaps upon photographic evidence that people supply to police or prosecutors in disgust toward an illegal act). Know well: whether one is in the USA or China one is just as free to riot -- which means, not at all. The difference is that American prosecution doesn't need any secret police to win convictions against rioters such as those who disrupted a session of Congress.