01-22-2021, 12:30 PM
(01-22-2021, 04:49 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(01-21-2021, 08:27 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: It is impossible to prove a non-existent fraud. There is less shadiness in the 2020 Presidential election than there was in 2000. Still we have ways in which to define who wins and does not in accordance with the laws that include procedures for administering the election and counting the votes. In all of the states that were close there have been opportunities for both Parties to clamp down on any possibility of electoral fraud through
- tampering with machines
- forged ballots introduced into electoral devices
- falsification of voting results
- ineligible votes (such as by the deceased)
- intimidation of voters
- people voting in multiple places
This time we had a possible cheat, and it was a non-human participant: COVID-19, a literal threat to anyone who appeared at the polls. COVID-19 is about as welcome at a polling place as is an armed militia that threatens voters with such a message as "VOTE HERE AND DIE". Law enforcement could clear out a militia with such a message, but it can't remove the SARS-2 virus.
Extended time for voting and absentee ballots without excuses can not drive COVID-19 away, but it can certainly keep people from deciding to not vote. If there is any perception that COVID-19 discriminates against any ethnic minority, then states have every right to protect that minority. If it is white people -- likewise.
There were law suits by people associated with the Trump campaign, and they fell flat. Some states had recounts as mandated by law. Those worked against Trump.
So you tell me where the cheat was and what the cheat was. So the count came in slow?
Let's take a look at another election. Yes, it was obvious on November 4, 2008 that if Obama amassed 193 electoral votes by 11 PM he was going to win the Presidency because Obama was seen as sure to win California, Hawaii, Oregon, and Washington with their 77 electoral votes. At 8:59 ET Obama had amassed 102 electoral votes. Quick calls in several states (MI, MN, NY, RI, and WI) put Obama at 175. There were plenty of states that were close and not yet called, and some yet to even close their polling.
At 9:23 PM, about everyone concluded that the Republicans had run out of votes in Ohio, and Obama was going to win Ohio. That put Obama at 185. It's over except for waiting for the votes to come in from the West Coast. Well, we know the rest.
It took two days to count the votes to decide North Carolina, and fifteen days to count the vote in Missouri. Slow counting is possible. Quick calls indicate that the margin is large enough that only a fool would deny the final result. Slow counts indicate a tight margin. Votes counted late (in some states the absentee ballots had to be counted last, and those paradoxically included the first ballots cast) count as much as those cast on Election Day.
States counted their votes in different orders. Biden started out with leads in Florida, Ohio, and Texas, all of which he lost.
Yes, yes, yes... I know that you are disappointed with the result. Well guess how I felt in 2016? Elections don't all go our way, do they? Maybe the 74 million who voted for Trump were more convinced that Trump was the necessary choice for a "real America" as you describe it and that the 81 million who voted against him acted in treachery, malice, or delusion (if that is how you see it). That is not how we decide an election.
The Supreme Court refused to get involved. So, its impossible to prove either way until the Supreme Court gets involved and makes a ruling on whether the use of courts to change state election laws in 2020 was legal or not. I suspect there will be a court decision on that issue by 2022. It's going to have to be done to keep the county together because the alternative is going to be a national split and an American war being fought where most of them live. If I were them, I'd ask myself which side is the bulk of the military related to and which side has supported them and how many of them with be left to protect them from the mob and vote accordingly.
"No standing". One of the lawsuits was Texas against Pennsylvania, in which Texas pols claimed that the Pennsylvania count was wrong. The Supreme Court refused to hear the case because no evidence suggested that Texas had any right to challenge Pennsylvania's vote. Pennsylvania did nothing to disenfranchise Texas voters.
Quote:Do you know how many Democratic/Biden votes were added due to all the illegal law changes? Do you know how to tell the difference between what would have been an illegal vote and a legal vote now that they've all been counted and declared legal votes? So, I don't really care about the result at this point. The decision has already been made by the political class (the political establishments) and everyone directly associated with them in DC and it's already been determined as legal by all of them. The result has been signed, sealed, delivered and declared official and there's nothing that can be done about it because it's a done deal.
No; I have no idea. Voter participation went up greatly for the 2018 midterm election; this should be a portent. Except for Iowa, all states that gave a plurality of their Congressional votes to Democrats in contested races went for Biden in 2020. The Millennial Generation had been relatively light in voting before 2018; that is over. Millennial voters are about 20% more D than R, and they were the bulk of the new voters supplanting older voters (55+) dying off who on the whole were about 5% more R than D. About 1.6% of the electorate quits voting due either to death or debility, and that alone explains the shift in the popular vote. That was enough to swing Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. That was enough to derail the "Trump Train".
Quote:We know every Democrat and every Democratic lifestyle and every Democratic life is some how related or directly attached to the Democratic party and its existence one way or another. We know there are some RINO's who are now in the same boat with the Democratic party whether they like it or not at this point. Ain't like that on the Republican side, the lives and lifestyles of the bulk of the Republican base are all directly attached to the American Constitution and the existence of the American country/state. So, that's pretty much where we are at as far as the national divide that exists within the country today. It appears that Biden has embraced Woke culture and will govern as Woke instead of a traditional Democrat. I assume that he's already prepping for his early departure and getting things ready for Kamala to become our next President or the first female Woke President.
We Democrats have a wider variety of ways of life than you give us credit for. There is no particularly "Democratic" lifestyle, and many of us identify ourselves in different ways. We recognize the same Constitution and the same flag. We weren't the ones who stormed the Capitol. It's the same country whether one is in Union City, California; Union City, New Jersey; or Union City, Tennessee.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.