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Researchers Finally Confirm There Is Life After Death
#41
I think that there may be a sociobiological explanation of the Afterlife: it tells a doomed person to give up the struggle.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#42
(06-21-2016, 12:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I think that there may be a sociobiological explanation of the Afterlife: it tells a doomed person to give up the struggle.

It also has historically been very useful. Tell people that if they do as they are told in life they will be rewarded in the afterlife.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#43
(06-21-2016, 03:54 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 12:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I think that there may be a sociobiological explanation of the Afterlife: it tells a doomed person to give up the struggle.

It also has historically been very useful. Tell people that if they do as they are told in life they will be rewarded in the afterlife.

I happen to think that this is one of the most egregious aspects of religions doctrine - that of swindling people out of their very own lives and convincing them to behave in ways beneficial to those in power over the doctrine, but beneficial to no one else.

Consider the trillions of dollars that flow into and through the coffers of many of the major religions, especially those with elaborate doctrines such as Roman Catholics, Mormons, Prosperity Doctrine Protestants, etc.  Meanwhile, the congregants are expected to pay through the nose, have as many children as possible, and spend their spare time trying to convince others, who are probably better off, to adopt this lunatic existence.  In the name of what?  Some invisible friend who may or may not save your child from leukemia?  Find you a parking place in Las Vegas?
[fon‌t=Arial Black]"... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."[/font]
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#44
(06-21-2016, 05:07 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 03:54 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 12:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I think that there may be a sociobiological explanation of the Afterlife: it tells a doomed person to give up the struggle.

It also has historically been very useful. Tell people that if they do as they are told in life they will be rewarded in the afterlife.

I happen to think that this is one of the most egregious aspects of religions doctrine - that of swindling people out of their very own lives and convincing them to behave in ways beneficial to those in power over the doctrine, but beneficial to no one else.

Consider the trillions of dollars that flow into and through the coffers of many of the major religions, especially those with elaborate doctrines such as Roman Catholics, Mormons, Prosperity Doctrine Protestants, etc.  Meanwhile, the congregants are expected to pay through the nose, have as many children as possible, and spend their spare time trying to convince others, who are probably better off, to adopt this lunatic existence.  In the name of what?  Some invisible friend who may or may not save your child from leukemia?  Find you a parking place in Las Vegas?

Which is why i was born an atheist and i will die an atheist. I am a free thinker who is not looking to be 'saved' in the afterlife aka giving money to swindlers who either really believe in it or just want money. The whole origin of an afterlife would have been for control of a population's behaviour for profit (tax and war). So, no thanks. Glad to be an atheist. However that said the idea of ghosts fascinates me as i have had some experiences i cannot explain logically but then there goes their idea of a place called heaven and hell! That would be called perception.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#45
(06-21-2016, 05:07 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 03:54 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 12:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I think that there may be a sociobiological explanation of the Afterlife: it tells a doomed person to give up the struggle.

It also has historically been very useful. Tell people that if they do as they are told in life they will be rewarded in the afterlife.

I happen to think that this is one of the most egregious aspects of religions doctrine - that of swindling people out of their very own lives and convincing them to behave in ways beneficial to those in power over the doctrine, but beneficial to no one else.

Consider the trillions of dollars that flow into and through the coffers of many of the major religions, especially those with elaborate doctrines such as Roman Catholics, Mormons, Prosperity Doctrine Protestants, etc.  Meanwhile, the congregants are expected to pay through the nose, have as many children as possible, and spend their spare time trying to convince others, who are probably better off, to adopt this lunatic existence.  In the name of what?  Some invisible friend who may or may not save your child from leukemia?  Find you a parking place in Las Vegas?

in my opinion, many of the problems with religion come from the large organizations and the big time televangelists.
This is a case were simple is better( 'less is more'). 
I don't see this as religious doctrine, it is just pure greed.
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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#46
(06-21-2016, 05:07 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 03:54 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 12:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I think that there may be a sociobiological explanation of the Afterlife: it tells a doomed person to give up the struggle.

It also has historically been very useful. Tell people that if they do as they are told in life they will be rewarded in the afterlife.

I happen to think that this is one of the most egregious aspects of religions doctrine - that of swindling people out of their very own lives and convincing them to behave in ways beneficial to those in power over the doctrine, but beneficial to no one else.

Consider the trillions of dollars that flow into and through the coffers of many of the major religions, especially those with elaborate doctrines such as Roman Catholics, Mormons, Prosperity Doctrine Protestants, etc.  Meanwhile, the congregants are expected to pay through the nose, have as many children as possible, and spend their spare time trying to convince others, who are probably better off, to adopt this lunatic existence.  In the name of what?  Some invisible friend who may or may not save your child from leukemia?  Find you a parking place in Las Vegas?

All true, but a straw man. Life after death today is a new age phenomenon, and has nothing to do with this traditional religion, the invisible friend, church coffers, being rewarded for good behavior, etc.

Mostly, it's various experiences people have that convince them that the traditional materialist paradigms/worldviews are just as limited as the naive religious worldviews.

So, ignore this phenomena if you want; ignore my points if you prefer. Some people just have experience and knowledge of something more, and ignoring it or knocking it won't make it go away.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#47
(06-22-2016, 12:43 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 05:07 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 03:54 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-21-2016, 12:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I think that there may be a sociobiological explanation of the Afterlife: it tells a doomed person to give up the struggle.

It also has historically been very useful. Tell people that if they do as they are told in life they will be rewarded in the afterlife.

I happen to think that this is one of the most egregious aspects of religions doctrine - that of swindling people out of their very own lives and convincing them to behave in ways beneficial to those in power over the doctrine, but beneficial to no one else.

Consider the trillions of dollars that flow into and through the coffers of many of the major religions, especially those with elaborate doctrines such as Roman Catholics, Mormons, Prosperity Doctrine Protestants, etc.  Meanwhile, the congregants are expected to pay through the nose, have as many children as possible, and spend their spare time trying to convince others, who are probably better off, to adopt this lunatic existence.  In the name of what?  Some invisible friend who may or may not save your child from leukemia?  Find you a parking place in Las Vegas?

All true, but a straw man. Life after death today is a new age phenomenon, and has nothing to do with this traditional religion, the invisible friend, church coffers, being rewarded for good behavior, etc.

Mostly, it's various experiences people have that convince them that the traditional materialist paradigms/worldviews are just as limited as the naive religious worldviews.

So, ignore this phenomena if you want; ignore my points if you prefer. Some people just have experience and knowledge of something more, and ignoring it or knocking it won't make it go away.

I actually envy him that he has not experienced what I have.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#48
Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#49
(06-22-2016, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.

I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#50
(06-22-2016, 01:57 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.

I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.


The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.
[fon‌t=Arial Black]"... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."[/font]
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#51
(06-24-2016, 04:22 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:57 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.

I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.


The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.

Of course you would be skeptical having never experienced it. So would I! But taps flooding the kitchen with no one in the house. Doors that i have to kick down (they stick in the cold) opening by themselves, light switches being turned on etc etc i cannot ignore that. And i have thought of every possible alternative. I have none.

Sorry as you have not experienced it yourself (what i have gone through personally) you cannot say anything on this matter. Lucky you! Be grateful for that.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#52
(06-24-2016, 04:36 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:22 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:57 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.

I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.


The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.

Of course you would be skeptical having never experienced it. So would I! But taps flooding the kitchen with no one in the house. Doors that i have to kick down (they stick in the cold) opening by themselves, light switches being turned on etc etc i cannot ignore that. And i have thought of every possible alternative. I have none.

Sorry as you have not experienced it yourself (what i have gone through personally) you cannot say anything on this matter. Lucky you! Be grateful for that.

So, Tara, the ONLY, ONLY explanation is "spirits?"  

See, that's the problem I have with woo-woo. What you are "experiencing" are PHYSICAL phenomena.  Therefore there needs to be a PHYSICAL force applied to produce the action ... the door opening, the water tap being turned on, etc.  My money is still on some physical cause, maybe something we don't fully understand, but my goodness, let's leave the woo-woo toward the end of the list of hypotheses?
[fon‌t=Arial Black]"... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."[/font]
Reply
#53
(06-28-2016, 02:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:36 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:22 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:57 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.

I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.


The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.

Of course you would be skeptical having never experienced it. So would I! But taps flooding the kitchen with no one in the house. Doors that i have to kick down (they stick in the cold) opening by themselves, light switches being turned on etc etc i cannot ignore that. And i have thought of every possible alternative. I have none.

Sorry as you have not experienced it yourself (what i have gone through personally) you cannot say anything on this matter. Lucky you! Be grateful for that.

So, Tara, the ONLY, ONLY explanation is "spirits?"  

See, that's the problem I have with woo-woo. What you are "experiencing" are PHYSICAL phenomena.  Therefore there needs to be a PHYSICAL force applied to produce the action ... the door opening, the water tap being turned on, etc.  My money is still on some physical cause, maybe something we don't fully understand, but my goodness, let's leave the woo-woo toward the end of the list of hypotheses?

I have gone through everything else. It was for me the END of my list! I did not assume it was a ghost to start with. I know you do not believe in this so why the heck are you even interested in discussing what you do not believe? Waste of time talking to a man with a closed mind.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#54
(06-28-2016, 02:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:36 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:22 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:57 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.

I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.


The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.

Of course you would be skeptical having never experienced it. So would I! But taps flooding the kitchen with no one in the house. Doors that i have to kick down (they stick in the cold) opening by themselves, light switches being turned on etc etc i cannot ignore that. And i have thought of every possible alternative. I have none.

Sorry as you have not experienced it yourself (what i have gone through personally) you cannot say anything on this matter. Lucky you! Be grateful for that.

So, Tara, the ONLY, ONLY explanation is "spirits?"  

See, that's the problem I have with woo-woo. What you are "experiencing" are PHYSICAL phenomena.  Therefore there needs to be a PHYSICAL force applied to produce the action ... the door opening, the water tap being turned on, etc.  My money is still on some physical cause, maybe something we don't fully understand, but my goodness, let's leave the woo-woo toward the end of the list of hypotheses?

Btw door opening, tap being turned on etc NO ONE IN THE HOUSE EXCEPT ME. THE DOOR HAD NO WAY OF OPENING NEITHER THE TAP SO MR SMARTY PANTS YOU EXPLAIN THAT. Of course your money will be on the physical cause. Unlike me you are blissfully unaware. You know what? I am glad i have had this experience. It is an eye opener. At least I am not as ignorant to the world that so many ignore. I tried to rationalize it.To find a physical cause. But i was there and i experienced some things that would turn your hair white......well too late in that department for you. You are lucky you have not experienced it but i am for it opened my eyes. My go to explanations are always physical cause first and i always run through explanations but if i cannot find one of course given my experience which you mentioned you have not had (some are not as sensitive to this) nor in an area that is active, I know what caused it. My mother has the same ability and has had it since she was a child. She has seen both the man and the woman like i have. Explain that mr rational. Why are you here otherwise? You are here to tell us it is bs although you have not been here and experienced what we have experienced. You can only judge at a distance without ever experiencing it yourself. A closed mind can only grasp at what they currently are aware of and also what others tell them. How fortunate for you. I have gone through this since i was a child. My first experience was a traumatizing one and i have never slept on my back nor slept in total dark since. Sorry but do not even waste your time typing out that that is bs because from where you currently stand you have no room to talk about something you are not experienced in.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#55
(06-28-2016, 04:34 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-28-2016, 02:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:36 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:22 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:57 AM)taramarie Wrote: I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.


The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.

Of course you would be skeptical having never experienced it. So would I! But taps flooding the kitchen with no one in the house. Doors that i have to kick down (they stick in the cold) opening by themselves, light switches being turned on etc etc i cannot ignore that. And i have thought of every possible alternative. I have none.

Sorry as you have not experienced it yourself (what i have gone through personally) you cannot say anything on this matter. Lucky you! Be grateful for that.

So, Tara, the ONLY, ONLY explanation is "spirits?"  

See, that's the problem I have with woo-woo. What you are "experiencing" are PHYSICAL phenomena.  Therefore there needs to be a PHYSICAL force applied to produce the action ... the door opening, the water tap being turned on, etc.  My money is still on some physical cause, maybe something we don't fully understand, but my goodness, let's leave the woo-woo toward the end of the list of hypotheses?

Btw door opening, tap being turned on etc NO ONE IN THE HOUSE EXCEPT ME. THE DOOR HAD NO WAY OF OPENING NEITHER THE TAP SO MR SMARTY PANTS YOU EXPLAIN THAT. Of course your money will be on the physical cause. Unlike me you are blissfully unaware. You know what? I am glad i have had this experience. It is an eye opener. At least I am not as ignorant to the world that so many ignore. I tried to rationalize it.To find a physical cause. But i was there and i experienced some things that would turn your hair white......well too late in that department for you. You are lucky you have not experienced it but i am for it opened my eyes. My go to explanations are always physical cause first and i always run through explanations but if i cannot find one of course given my experience which you mentioned you have not had (some are not as sensitive to this) nor in an area that is active, I know what caused it. My mother has the same ability and has had it since she was a child. She has seen both the man and the woman like i have. Explain that mr rational. Why are you here otherwise? You are here to tell us it is bs although you have not been here and experienced what we have experienced. You can only judge at a distance without ever experiencing it yourself. A closed mind can only grasp at what they currently are aware of and also what others tell them. How fortunate for you. I have gone through this since i was a child. My first experience was a traumatizing one and i have never slept on my back nor slept in total dark since. Sorry but do not even waste your time typing out that that is bs because from where you currently stand you have no room to talk about something you are not experienced in.


I wish we lived closer.  If we did, I would willingly, enthusiastically, come and spend some ... what ... two, three weeks full-time in this house waiting for "things" to happen.

Skepticism is said to be the chastity of the intellect.  I am a skeptic, but not totally close-minded.  

I believe that you have had your experience.  I also believe that I have had my experience.  However, believing that one's own experience is the superior reality is simply illogical.  

That is why I would gladly inhabit anyone's haunted house for some prescribed period of time as an experiment.  If there is something to these phenomena, then I need to see it just to flesh out my view of the world.  I think it would be great fun to set up active motion cameras and other sensors ... for example one hears stories about abrupt changes in temperatures.  One could also set up a Ouija board, which people say is very sensitive to spirits.  There are probably all sorts of things one could do ...

But so far, such claims of these phenomena are so rare that I don't know anyone I can ask.  

Sorry if I offended you.  I certainly don't mean it personal.  After all, this is nothing more than an internet discussion board.  For all you know I may be a 9 year old girl in an Internet Cafe in Nigeria pretending to be an old man in the Southwest.
[fon‌t=Arial Black]"... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."[/font]
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#56
(06-28-2016, 07:15 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-28-2016, 04:34 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-28-2016, 02:42 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:36 PM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-24-2016, 04:22 PM)TnT Wrote: The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.

Of course you would be skeptical having never experienced it. So would I! But taps flooding the kitchen with no one in the house. Doors that i have to kick down (they stick in the cold) opening by themselves, light switches being turned on etc etc i cannot ignore that. And i have thought of every possible alternative. I have none.

Sorry as you have not experienced it yourself (what i have gone through personally) you cannot say anything on this matter. Lucky you! Be grateful for that.

So, Tara, the ONLY, ONLY explanation is "spirits?"  

See, that's the problem I have with woo-woo. What you are "experiencing" are PHYSICAL phenomena.  Therefore there needs to be a PHYSICAL force applied to produce the action ... the door opening, the water tap being turned on, etc.  My money is still on some physical cause, maybe something we don't fully understand, but my goodness, let's leave the woo-woo toward the end of the list of hypotheses?

Btw door opening, tap being turned on etc NO ONE IN THE HOUSE EXCEPT ME. THE DOOR HAD NO WAY OF OPENING NEITHER THE TAP SO MR SMARTY PANTS YOU EXPLAIN THAT. Of course your money will be on the physical cause. Unlike me you are blissfully unaware. You know what? I am glad i have had this experience. It is an eye opener. At least I am not as ignorant to the world that so many ignore. I tried to rationalize it.To find a physical cause. But i was there and i experienced some things that would turn your hair white......well too late in that department for you. You are lucky you have not experienced it but i am for it opened my eyes. My go to explanations are always physical cause first and i always run through explanations but if i cannot find one of course given my experience which you mentioned you have not had (some are not as sensitive to this) nor in an area that is active, I know what caused it. My mother has the same ability and has had it since she was a child. She has seen both the man and the woman like i have. Explain that mr rational. Why are you here otherwise? You are here to tell us it is bs although you have not been here and experienced what we have experienced. You can only judge at a distance without ever experiencing it yourself. A closed mind can only grasp at what they currently are aware of and also what others tell them. How fortunate for you. I have gone through this since i was a child. My first experience was a traumatizing one and i have never slept on my back nor slept in total dark since. Sorry but do not even waste your time typing out that that is bs because from where you currently stand you have no room to talk about something you are not experienced in.


I wish we lived closer.  If we did, I would willingly, enthusiastically, come and spend some ... what ... two, three weeks full-time in this house waiting for "things" to happen.

Skepticism is said to be the chastity of the intellect.  I am a skeptic, but not totally close-minded.  

I believe that you have had your experience.  I also believe that I have had my experience.  However, believing that one's own experience is the superior reality is simply illogical.  

That is why I would gladly inhabit anyone's haunted house for some prescribed period of time as an experiment.  If there is something to these phenomena, then I need to see it just to flesh out my view of the world.  I think it would be great fun to set up active motion cameras and other sensors ... for example one hears stories about abrupt changes in temperatures.  One could also set up a Ouija board, which people say is very sensitive to spirits.  There are probably all sorts of things one could do ...

But so far, such claims of these phenomena are so rare that I don't know anyone I can ask.  

Sorry if I offended you.  I certainly don't mean it personal.  After all, this is nothing more than an internet discussion board.  For all you know I may be a 9 year old girl in an Internet Cafe in Nigeria pretending to be an old man in the Southwest.
I am no Eric. I do not think my experience makes my reality superior. I did take offense because my experiences for some experiences anyway have had some trauma on me. Especially the first experience. I thought a man had broken into the house. Yeah for sure you would be most welcome to live here. I would love to know what your thoughts were on the tap being turned on or door being opened. I have to kick that door open as it gets stuck and given the direction of the door from the back door it could not have been wind. One would think sleep walking but for the door, my mother had been in the room and saw someone go to it and thought it was me. I was still in bed. It was not me. For the tap i was awake in bed reading the whole time. My mother found the tap gushing water and the kitchen flooded. No one else in the house. The tap is fine. Not broken and i had not touched it. Try and explain that as i have thought of every possible conclusion for years and years and i come up empty. Yes, cameras would be great. For me unfortunately i do not need them but it could be proof....although you would still have skeptics. No to ouija board. Apparently it is nothing but bad news. I do not need more strange activity in the house than i already have. I have been trying to block it all out for a very long time.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#57
(06-28-2016, 02:42 PM)TnT Wrote: See, that's the problem I have with woo-woo. What you are "experiencing" are PHYSICAL phenomena.  Therefore there needs to be a PHYSICAL force applied to produce the action ... the door opening, the water tap being turned on, etc.  My money is still on some physical cause, maybe something we don't fully understand, but my goodness, let's leave the woo-woo toward the end of the list of hypotheses?

It seems to me that a scientific attitude is not to assume what the explanation is before you know.

When you raise your hand or type a word on the keyboard, is there a physical cause for this? Are you sure?

Remember what Socrates said in Phaedo. He was heads up a lot more than others of his time or since. What caused his body to voluntarily go to the jail to serve his sentence decreed by the Greek authorities? Was it his bones and muscles that caused it? Or was it his choice of the best course of action, as he saw it?

"I rejoiced to think that I has found in Anaxagoras a teacher of the causes of existence such as I desired, and I imagined that he would tell me first whether the earth is flat or round; and then he would further explain that this position was the best, and I should be satisfied... and not want any other sort of cause. And I thought that I would then go and ask him about the sun and moon and stars, and he would explain to me their comparative swiftness, and their returnings and various states, and how their several affections, active and passive, were all for the best. For I could not imagine that when he spoke of mind as the disposer of them, he would give any other account of their being as they are, except that this was best; and I thought when he had explained to me in detail the cause of each and the cause of all, he would go on to explain to me what was best for me and what was best for all. ...I seized the books and read them as fast as I could in my eagerness to know the better and the worse.
...how grievously I was disappointed! ...I found my philosopher altogether forsaking mind and any other principle of order, but having recourse to air, and ether, and water, and other eccentricities. I might compare him to a person that began by maintaining generally that mind is the cause of the actions of Socrates, but who, when endeavored to explain the causes of my several actions in detail, went on to show that I sit here because my body is made up of bones and muscles; and the bones he would say, are hard and have ligaments which divide them, and the muscles are elastic, and they cover the bones, which also have a covering or environment of flesh and skin which contains them; and as the bones are lifted at their joints by the contraction or relaxation of the muscles, I am able to bend my limbs, and this is why I an sitting here in a curved posture... and he would have a similar explanation of my talking to you, which he would attribute to sound, and air, and hearing, and he would assign ten thousand other causes of the same sort, forgetting to mention the true cause, which is that Athenians have thought fit to condemn me, and accordingly I have thought it better and more right to remain here and undergo my sentence; for I am inclined to think that these muscles and bones of mine would have gone off to Megara or Boeotia... if they had been guided only by their idea of what was best, and if I had not chosen as the better and nobler part... to undergo any punishment that the State inflicts.

It may be said, indeed, that without bones and muscles and the other parts of the body I cannot execute my purposes. But to say that I do as I do because of them, and that this is the way in which the mind acts, and not from the choice of the best, is a very careless and idle mode of speaking. I wonder that they cannot distinguish the cause from the condition, which the many, feeling about in the dark, are always mistaking and misnaming."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Socrates
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#58
(06-29-2016, 01:38 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(06-28-2016, 02:42 PM)TnT Wrote: See, that's the problem I have with woo-woo. What you are "experiencing" are PHYSICAL phenomena.  Therefore there needs to be a PHYSICAL force applied to produce the action ... the door opening, the water tap being turned on, etc.  My money is still on some physical cause, maybe something we don't fully understand, but my goodness, let's leave the woo-woo toward the end of the list of hypotheses?

It seems to me that a scientific attitude is not to assume what the explanation is before you know.

True as he was not there. I wish he had been so i had an answer. The camera idea is not a bad one and i am sure would have caught some hair raising moments.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






Reply
#59
(06-24-2016, 04:22 PM)TnT Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:57 AM)taramarie Wrote:
(06-22-2016, 01:22 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Tara, some people might envy the greater peace and compassion which people who have come back from dying offer.

I can relate. Life is a fragile thing. But i do still envy those who are not in tune with what i am in tune with evidently. It is scarring stuff. I suppose some would envy it for you could get the chance to see loved ones. Hence why some contact people who are "supposed" to be in tune with the spirit world. Most are probably con artists (lucky them). But it is not guaranteed. Mostly i have seen things i just did not want to. When i was near death that was the one and only time i was truly at peace. Probably due to weakness from blood loss. Peaceful way to go i have to say. Not painful.


The human mind is a strange, curious and mysterious thing.  It does all sorts of things. We really don't understand much of it.

In my work in EMS I've had the opportunity to actually ASK a few folks that we've rescuscitated what they saw "on the other side."  To a person, each has told me that they saw, heard NOTHING AT ALL.  They remembered being ill, feeling bad ... then nothing ... then being back with us.

I have a good friend who suffered a heart attack years ago and went into cardiac arrest.  He says that he found the mythical peace and wonderfulness of the "white light" experience.  However, his life is in constant turmoil ... he is seldom at peace, he suffers debilitating chronic depression.  I guess I'm glad I don't have his "peace beyond all understanding!"

Again ... when things are said to happen that are far-fetched, infrequent, anecdotal, unexplained, seldom replicated ... AND often told to us by cranks ... sorry, I guess that after 74.5 years on the planet, never ever having witnessed any WOO-WOO myself, color me skeptical.

And finally, one of my most admired personalities is Harry Houdini.  He challenged ALL the cranks to perform their magic and found all of them wanting.  He furthermore made a deal with his wife that after he died, he would do whatever he could to show up on Halloween every year thereafter and give her their secret code word to prove that communication either was or was not possible from "the other side."  She did so for many years and Harry never showed.

I just know so many other folks who DID communicate with or visit the other side, both personally and in reports, lectures, interviews, books, etc., that I have to take a more open view. Plus, my experience-based worldview about my own experience of myself and life opened me to it.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#60
I have no doubt that if I were to seek out communities of "true believers" such as the folks who congregated on Sedona some years ago during the Great Alignment of the Planets, that I could find folks that believe all sorts of oddities.

For example, in their case, the "magic" in crystals, or the "magic" in sleeping under a pyramid. And what happened? Not a darn thing, except inside their own fevered brains. New Age on steroids.

And especially since the advent of the Internet, there is a community for EVERYONE. There is virtually no imaginable belief system that doesn't have its adherents.

If I seek out, for example, people who believe that wearing a copper bracelet relieves arthritis, I can without question acquire a multitude of personal stories of how much it helped.

This is, of course, the very definition of the process of Confirmation Bias. One can accumlate piles and piles of "evidence," while rejecting piles and piles of "falsehoods," and wind up in arguments able to point to my "evidence" and say, "SEE, SEE ALL THAT!! PROOF POSITIVE!!"
[fon‌t=Arial Black]"... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."[/font]
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