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the best songs ever: the lost years
I certainly have been moved by music all my life, as mikebert observed. I am sure the music that made teenagers feel good (allegedly; it seems like it was expressing rage or boredom more often) in these "lost years," would not have made me feel good when I was any younger. But teenagers are more likely to be attached to the music geared to them as teenagers. The need to be cool and be up on what's happenin' certainly is there, and that's part of why I tuned in in 1964. Today's teenagers are more likely to listen to musicians their own age or slightly older, and that has been true before too. It's more expected of teens to groove to music; older people are too often forced to spend all their time working. Myself, I could never be convinced that the American and British pop music of the 1960s was not much better than the American pop music of the 1990s. I maintain there is an objective element to it, and that my opinion is not caused by my age. And I always suspect biological explanations of anything; the differences between ages are also strongly sociological, and also inherent in the music.

The Beach Boys asked "will I still dig the same things that turned me on as a kid" in 1964, and they started their age count at the age I was when I bought the record. Now, I answer that question, yes!

Myself, in the 3T era I was just as keyed in to music as I was in the 2T era; perhaps a bit more. Music has been a big part of my life at all ages. In the 1980s I was moved enough to become more of a musician than I had been, and I started practicing and playing again and hosting a radio show. But it was classical organ music, and the contemporary new age ambient and electronic music, that moved me. I tuned out the commercial and "alternative" pop stuff to a great extent, especially in the 1990s and 2000s. No doubt I missed some pretty good music, but most of the time, what I hear now of it does not make me wish I had tuned into it. My only regret is that I can't do better on recent pop culture questions on Jeopardy. Smile I do like to know what's going on at all times. It's just that a lot of certain genres are not listenable, so that makes it harder. And as I have pointed out, I was just as critical of some of the pop music in the 2T as I was of later stuff. Bad stuff (or at least mediocre stuff) abounds abundantly in pop; that's just the nature of the beast. Vox populi is not equivalent to good taste.

I am glad that I like some of the 4T pop music, and I doubt I would have been moved any more by Justin Bieber's "Pray" had I heard it in 1966, than having heard it in 2012. But, in 1972 I was fortunate enough to hear and buy Meher Baba's universal prayer as produced by Pete Townshend. The music, in short, is the music.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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(09-03-2016, 10:49 AM)gabrielle Wrote:
(09-03-2016, 06:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Grunge just can't compare with the best songs. Tori Amos? Maybe. "Nirvana?" 




Interesting lol  A good artist can improve a song markedly!
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(09-03-2016, 04:16 PM)Mikebert Wrote: As Eric has demonstrated, I do not think people become less moved by music as they age.  I am an 57-year old white American Engineer who was entranced by a song I heard 30 years ago.  This song is Shosholoza, a South African mining song FILLED with sociological baggage.

A very pretty song indeed, but if you first heard it 30 years ago and it has stuck with you all this time, doesn't that kinda prove my point?
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(09-03-2016, 05:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I am sure the music that made teenagers feel good (allegedly; it seems like it was expressing rage or boredom more often) in these "lost years," would not have made me feel good when I was any younger. 

Nope, no boredom going on.  You are totally wrong there.  Rage, however....

"I had to look at what was making me so angry..."  --Tori Amos 





Quote:The Beach Boys asked "will I still dig the same things that turned me on as a kid" in 1964, and they started their age count at the age I was when I bought the record. Now, I answer that question, yes!

And I answer yes, too!
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OK, 1992.  Pavement, Slanted and Enchanted.







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(09-04-2016, 12:55 AM)gabrielle Wrote:
(09-03-2016, 05:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I am sure the music that made teenagers feel good (allegedly; it seems like it was expressing rage or boredom more often) in these "lost years," would not have made me feel good when I was any younger. 

Nope, no boredom going on.  You are totally wrong there.  Rage, however....

"I had to look at what was making me so angry..."  --Tori Amos 





Quote:The Beach Boys asked "will I still dig the same things that turned me on as a kid" in 1964, and they started their age count at the age I was when I bought the record. Now, I answer that question, yes!

And I answer yes, too!

With the caveats; I have discovered, or rediscovered, things along the way that I didn't know about before. So, without denying entirely your point about the impact of music in teen years, I have been able to take a wider view and see music from other years more inclusively than I did. Unlike some more conventionally-bound humans, I have been basically the same throughout my life, being somewhat of an old soul, though always with more to learn. I wasn't so different as a teen from what I am now, although for others that may not be the case. It seems to me that music and art goes through phases, and so do people, and I can appreciate the 1950s pop, for example, more than I sometimes did as a teen.

But sometimes the "modernist, experimental, alternative" phases have happened, where the intentionally-ugly has been embraced as the latest style or fad, and this still does not appeal to me as I look back on it. This happened to some extent in visual arts in the mid-20th century, and in the dissonant styles of academic music in the same period, while as the commenter on Hovhannes said, now it's OK again to portray the beautiful and the spiritual in music. Something similar happened in pop and youth music from the mid-1980s through the early-mid 2000s, but now these similar intentionally-ugly "alternative modernist experiments" are over in this field as well, and something of a recovery from this phase is happening today in the 4T; as for example with Pharrell, who embodied shallow rap for a while, but now is able to give us songs like "Happy" and "Freedom" that express beauty in music again.

I also notice that although styles are most characteristic of the period when they come into predominance and establish themselves, their impact continues in later times, for a while at least-- as happened with the "sweet, sentimental" styles of the 1950s lasting into the late 50s and 60s as an undercurrent, or with rap continuing to hold sway today in the 4T, and some 2T musicians continuing to have some hits in the 3T.

Astrology also expresses these phases, as the long-term saecular-planetary positions show parallel developments. For example, in the late 1940s through the mid 1950s, Neptune was in Libra, a harmonious and sweet sign that doesn't go to extremes. This reflected itself in the peaceful and conventional Eisenhower-Nixon years of the 1950s and in the sweet sentimental musical styles of those years. This found an echo in the Nixon years of the early 1970s, when both Uranus and Pluto were also in Libra, and to some extent the Carter and early Reagan years as Pluto continued in Libra while Uranus (the faster planet) had moved on into Scorpio. And the "bubble-gum" pop music of the early 1970s seemed to hark back to the "superficial, sentimental" 1950s pop styles too.

The years when Uranus and Pluto were in conjunction in Virgo and with Neptune in Scorpio were more radical, progressive, innovative years of the mid-sixties, when styles were also more intense and radical and rose to a higher degree of creative energy beyond conventional approaches, which was also reflected politically in the late camelot and LBJ's "Great Society" periods. The Uranus-Pluto in Virgo "Great Society" period also echoed the earlier Neptune in Virgo period of the 1930s and the New Deal in some respects, when Uranus and Pluto were in square. And the Scorpio/Capricorn period of the 1980s and 90s were more downcast and down to earth, with a "techno-experimental" phase in the early 90s under late Bush I/early Bill Clinton as Uranus joined Neptune in conjunction. And so on and so forth.

But yes, many of the 3T American pop styles expressed boredom and ennui, although others expressed rage, and they may not be the same musicians or works doing both at once.

Sorry for the long post; once a boomer gets going waxing philosophical or sociological or whatever one calls it, it sometimes gets carried away.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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Seal, from his self-titled album of 1991



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"Rusty Cage," by Soundgarden from the album Badmotorfinger of 1991.






And here is Johnny Cash's excellent cover of the same song, from his 1996 album Unchained.



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I'll take the Johnny Cash cover, thank you, and leave the Soundgarden to fester (it's hopeless to weed it).

Seal, huh? Good; never heard of him.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(09-06-2016, 01:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'll take the Johnny Cash cover, thank you, and leave the Soundgarden to fester (it's hopeless to weed it).

Seal, huh? Good; never heard of him.

Never heard of Seal? Wow. Take a listen to this.



1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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(09-06-2016, 01:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'll take the Johnny Cash cover, thank you, and leave the Soundgarden to fester (it's hopeless to weed it).

Seal, huh? Good; never heard of him.

"Fester?"  You're mixing your metaphors there.  You need to step up your game.

Johnny Cash was a remarkable artist whose work remained relevant in three turnings.  He later made a cover of another grunge era song which became a hit, I will post it later.
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(09-06-2016, 08:31 AM)gabrielle Wrote:
(09-06-2016, 01:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'll take the Johnny Cash cover, thank you, and leave the Soundgarden to fester (it's hopeless to weed it).

Seal, huh? Good; never heard of him.

"Fester?"  You're mixing your metaphors there.  You need to step up your game.

That's true; I couldn't quite think of the right word. I still can't.

Quote:Johnny Cash was a remarkable artist whose work remained relevant in three turnings.  He later made a cover of another grunge era song which became a hit, I will post it later.

Good; I much agree. I trust you will move on from 1991, and not "fester" there too much longer? Well, whatever works, do what you will.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(09-06-2016, 11:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(09-06-2016, 08:31 AM)gabrielle Wrote:
(09-06-2016, 01:24 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'll take the Johnny Cash cover, thank you, and leave the Soundgarden to fester (it's hopeless to weed it).

Seal, huh? Good; never heard of him.

"Fester?"  You're mixing your metaphors there.  You need to step up your game.

That's true; I couldn't quite think of the right word. I still can't.

Quote:Johnny Cash was a remarkable artist whose work remained relevant in three turnings.  He later made a cover of another grunge era song which became a hit, I will post it later.

Good; I much agree. I trust you will move on from 1991, and not "fester" there too much longer? Well, whatever works, do what you will.

Sorry, it was a good year for me, lots of great music!  Actually, 1992 was the good year for me, because that's when all these cool bands were touring.  But a lot of the music was released in 1991.
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The Beastie Boys were such a fun band.  Check Your Head, 1992.

"People how you doin', there's a new day dawnin'
For the earth mother, it's a brand new mornin'
For such a long while, there's been such a longin'
But now the sun is shinin', let's roll back the awnin'"*

Lots of Hendrix samples on this one.










An clip from their earliest days, clowning around with Joan Rivers.  They evolved a bit over the years.  RIP Joan and Adam Yauch!









*I always heard "Father and Mother, it's a brand new morning"
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(09-06-2016, 12:26 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Something weird for me. I never stopped synching up with the music of angry and emotional youth.

And I never stopped synching up with romantic, idealistic, blissful "getting high, you can't beat it" youth.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
(09-03-2016, 06:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(09-03-2016, 10:49 AM)gabrielle Wrote:
(09-03-2016, 06:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Grunge just can't compare with the best songs. Tori Amos? Maybe. "Nirvana?" 

.............

Interesting lol  A good artist can improve a song markedly!

True story. I mean just look at how much better musicians with actual talent can make a dreadful Bieber song!  Cool



The single despot stands out in the face of all men, and says: I am the State: My will is law: I am your master: I take the responsibility of my acts: The only arbiter I acknowledge is the sword: If any one denies my right, let him try conclusions with me. -- Lysander Spooner
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(09-07-2016, 04:55 PM)Copperfield Wrote:
(09-03-2016, 06:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(09-03-2016, 10:49 AM)gabrielle Wrote:
(09-03-2016, 06:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Grunge just can't compare with the best songs. Tori Amos? Maybe. "Nirvana?" 

.............

Interesting lol  A good artist can improve a song markedly!

True story. I mean just look at how much better musicians with actual talent can make a dreadful Bieber song!  Cool




Postmodern Jukebox is great!  They are coming to my town, but tickets are a bit pricey.
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You have your quote attributions mixed up, Copperfield, or gabrielle. This post above has ME saying Bieber's song is dreadful and that he has no talent! And besides, this belongs on the 4T music thread, Copperfield. Well, whatever, no worries.

What this shows though, is that good artists can take a song that is masked by an ugly sound and performance, and bring out some of its inherent qualities. I of course don't think Bieber is without talent or has an ugly sound, and I don't even know if I like this version better myself than Bieber's version, although Copperfield apparently does; but this at least shows his song is good enough for another artist to bring out qualities beyond the original that others might like better. The same was true with how Tori Amos brought out good inherent qualities in the Nirvana song that I could not hear in Nirvana's ugly performance. And it did make me feel a bit better about Nirvana and Cobain as an artist. And the same should be applied to Bieber, if he wrote a good song that another artist can make palatable to those who don't like Bieber's performances. If someone can do that, then Bieber is not "without talent."

Yes, I am opinionated. Deal with it Wink
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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(09-07-2016, 05:11 PM)gabrielle Wrote: Postmodern Jukebox is great!  They are coming to my town, but tickets are a bit pricey.

Having seen them live, I can say that the price is worth paying. Keep in mind, you will be helping to keep at least a dozen musicians employed.
The single despot stands out in the face of all men, and says: I am the State: My will is law: I am your master: I take the responsibility of my acts: The only arbiter I acknowledge is the sword: If any one denies my right, let him try conclusions with me. -- Lysander Spooner
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