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Millions of Ordinary Americans Support Trump. Here's Why.
#1
Millions of Ordinary Americans Support Trump. Here's Why.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#2
Demagogues flourish in failed societies, and America has much failure. Of the four classes of potential exploiters doing very well at the expense of the common man -- the big landowner in the country or the big landlord in the cities, the industrialists and financiers out for themselves alone, an administrative nomenklatura that  dominates the administration of the economy and academia, intellectual hucksters (televangelists, corporate attorneys, lobbyists), and organized crime -- we have them all, and they are all doing well. They all exploit us Americans badly, and we are expected to see all of them (except perhaps organized crime) as benefactors. Except perhaps organized crime (whose politics are murky) those exploiters all have coordinated well in political life.

The working poor are the norm in any plutocracy, and with the unwelcome status of working poverty goes a precariousness of life that often manifests itself in other pathology. So, do you think it stressful to have a one-way, hour-long commute to and from the office each day? At least one can put a CD in the stereo (book on CD or music) or listen to satellite radio because such a commute is very middle class. For real stress, try living where the coal mines have closed as the veins have been worked out or where the logging has gone into decline. Just look at the rates of death from opiate overdoses by county. Heroin that once was a highly-visible menace among black and Latino criminals mugging people to finance their expensive habits (and has largely vanished among blacks and Latinos, perhaps because many of the victims have died of AIDS) has become commonplace where the jobs that have existed (mining, logging, ranching) have a high chance of crippling injury on the job.

[Image: drug-map.jpg?w=750]

But deaths from opiate overdoses have an accidental appearance. Suicide is not an accident in appearance. There seem to be some remarkable connections between suicide and local politics:

[Image: blog-suicide.jpg?w=750]

Look where the rates are lowest and one will notice lowest rates in or around the biggest cities, generally in "Blue" America -- the parts of America most likely to have Democrats in Congress. New York, New Jersey, southern New England, coastal California, Baltimore-Washington, northern Ohio, northeastern Illinois, southeastern Pennsylvania, Minneapolis... Miami sticks out in Florida; San Antonio, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, and El Paso stick out in Texas; Atlanta sticks out in Georgia for low rates of suicide. Even the most ravaged of the cities of Michigan and Ohio seem to have low suicide rates. Maybe Michigan and Ohio pour more resources into mental health than do Nevada, Oregon, and New Mexico. Look also at the rates of deaths from opiate overdoses.

The heroin addict is no longer the stereotypical black- or brown-skinned loser; it is now a white loser in a place with few opportunities. Unpleasant and absurd as it may be to have to stay in Mom and Dad's McMansion because one's retail or fast food job pays a travesty of a living, at least one's job as a retail clerk or a fast food worker allows one some structure in life. Where even those jobs are not to be found life can be economically hopeless.

So what does "Make America Great Again" mean to the Trump supporter? Probably the Gilded Age if one is part of an economic elite -- the time in which working people knew their miserable place in life and got mowed down if they challenged the roles of elites. For people in much of the Mountain South it means having a job.


.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#3
(07-18-2016, 05:13 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Demagogues flourish in failed societies, and America has much failure. Of the four classes of potential exploiters doing very well at the expense of the common man -- the big landowner in the country or the big landlord in the cities, the industrialists and financiers out for themselves alone, an administrative nomenklatura that  dominates the administration of the economy and academia, intellectual hucksters (televangelists, corporate attorneys, lobbyists), and organized crime -- we have them all, and they are all doing well. They all exploit us Americans badly, and we are expected to see all of them (except perhaps organized crime) as benefactors. Except perhaps organized crime (whose politics are murky) those exploiters all have coordinated well in political life.  

The working poor are the norm in any plutocracy, and with the unwelcome status of working poverty goes a precariousness of life that often manifests itself in other pathology. So, do you think it stressful to have a one-way, hour-long commute to and from the office each day? At least one can put a CD in the stereo (book on CD or music) or listen to satellite radio because such a commute is very middle class. For real stress, try living where the coal mines have closed as the veins have been worked out or where the logging has gone into decline. Just look at the rates of death from opiate overdoses by county. Heroin that once was a highly-visible menace among black and Latino criminals mugging people to finance their expensive habits (and has largely vanished among blacks and Latinos, perhaps because many of the victims have died of AIDS) has become commonplace where the jobs that have existed (mining, logging, ranching) have a high chance of crippling injury on the job.

[Image: drug-map.jpg?w=750]

But deaths from opiate overdoses have an accidental appearance. Suicide is not an accident in appearance. There seem to be some remarkable connections between suicide and local politics:

[Image: blog-suicide.jpg?w=750]

Look where the rates are lowest and one will notice lowest rates in or around the biggest cities, generally in "Blue" America -- the parts of America most likely to have Democrats in Congress. New York, New Jersey, southern New England, coastal California, Baltimore-Washington, northern Ohio, northeastern Illinois, southeastern Pennsylvania, Minneapolis... Miami sticks out in Florida; San Antonio, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, and El Paso stick out in Texas; Atlanta sticks out in Georgia for low rates of suicide. Even the most ravaged of the cities of Michigan and Ohio seem to have low suicide rates. Maybe Michigan and Ohio pour more resources into mental health than do Nevada, Oregon, and New Mexico. Look also at the rates of deaths from opiate overdoses.

The heroin addict is no longer the stereotypical black- or brown-skinned loser; it is now a white loser in a place with few opportunities. Unpleasant and absurd as it may be to have to stay in Mom and Dad's McMansion because one's retail or fast food job pays a travesty of a living, at least one's job as a retail clerk or a fast food worker allows one some structure in life. Where even those jobs are not to be found life can be economically hopeless.

So what does "Make America Great Again" mean to the Trump supporter? Probably the Gilded Age if one is part of an economic elite -- the time in which working people knew their miserable place in life and got mowed down if they challenged the roles of elites. For people in much of the Mountain South it means having a job.


.
deja vu? I have seen this post before.
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#4
I showed the maps in the other post. The two threads are related.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#5
(07-18-2016, 05:41 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I showed the maps in the other post. The two threads are related.

Ah i thought i recognized it from elsewhere. Ok bed time for the kiwi. Sleepy Sleepy
1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#6
Quote:So what does "Make America Great Again" mean to the Trump supporter? Probably the Gilded Age if one is part of an economic elite -- the time in which working people knew their miserable place in life and got mowed down if they challenged the roles of elites. For people in much of the Mountain South it means having a job.


You know and I know that is not the Gilded Age that Trump wants to take us back to - but rather the Eisenhower '50s.

If you want the Gilded Age, vote for Gary Johnson.
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
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#7
If not the '50s, then 1926 - when an immigration cutoff drove the jobless rate down to 1.9%, and with no help from military spending/employment.
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
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#8
(07-18-2016, 09:21 AM)Anthony Wrote:
Quote:So what does "Make America Great Again" mean to the Trump supporter? Probably the Gilded Age if one is part of an economic elite -- the time in which working people knew their miserable place in life and got mowed down if they challenged the roles of elites. For people in much of the Mountain South it means having a job.

but rather the Eisenhower '50s.

Ah yes, when women and "Negroes" knew their place and gay people were treated as criminals. Rolleyes
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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#9
Just because we go back to the '50s economically doesn't necessarily mean that we must also go back there socially and culturally - and obviously we wouldn't.
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
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#10
In the 50s we didn't have trillions in national debt, massive inequality, and virtually no taxes on the wealthy, with unwillingness to support our allies. That's what Trump offers to "take us back" to "again." That's not Eisenhower. And with Trump's bigotry, "law and order" and xenophobia, it WOULD be a social and cultural regression to the 50s or before.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#11
(07-18-2016, 07:08 PM)Anthony 58 Wrote: If not the '50s, then 1926 - when an immigration cutoff drove the jobless rate down to 1.9%, and with no help from military spending/employment.

Except immigration is not a problem that has to be cut off now. Most job losses are not due to immigration, but to deregulation. Except for trade, Trump wants to expand deregulation.

Immigration is a net plus for the economy, because more workers equals more customers. Immigrants can't be blamed for automation, free trade and Reaganomics. But if he wants to try to raise employment at the expense of immigrants, he will have to deport those who are already here. A 1924-style cut-off will not reduce immigrants in the country at a time when they aren't coming.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#12
(07-18-2016, 10:20 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(07-18-2016, 07:08 PM)Anthony Wrote: If not the '50s, then 1926 - when an immigration cutoff drove the jobless rate down to 1.9%, and with no help from military spending/employment.

Except immigration is not a problem that has to be cut off now. Most job losses are not due to immigration, but to deregulation. Except for trade, Trump wants to expand deregulation.

Immigration is a net plus for the economy, because more workers equals more customers. Immigrants can't be blamed for automation, free trade and Reaganomics. But if he wants to try to raise employment at the expense of immigrants, he will have to deport those who are already here. A 1924-style cut-off will not reduce immigrants in the country at a time when they aren't coming.

...and, significantly, immigrants are disproportionately entrepreneurs.

People who recognize that they have no chance to get ahead in Corporate America (anyone who thinks that the managerial elite will not become a hereditary elite for all practical purposes when the spoiled-brat children or grandchildren need to get on the corporate fast track  to keep enjoying the newest and perhaps most obnoxious form of class privilege in America -- membership in the bureaucratic nomenklatura paid well for treating others badly -- has undue faith in the benevolence and moral objectivity of elites of all kinds) recognize that they have a better chance by opening a mom-and-pop restaurant or a gift shop than by seeking a 9-to-5 job.

Entrepreneurs create wealth. Entrenched elites simply grab income.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#13
(07-18-2016, 07:08 PM)Anthony Wrote: If not the '50s, then 1926 - when an immigration cutoff drove the jobless rate down to 1.9%, and with no help from military spending/employment.

A speculative boom allegedly creating wealth but in fact devouring it was well underway. 1926? There was no unemployment insurance; industrial unions were ineffective because employers could fire anyone for union activity; there was no minimum wage. If an employer insisted that one do 'voluntary' unpaid overtime, then one did so or the employer voluntarily fired  the employee. The ethos of the Gilded Age was much in effect in business and industry.

So why don't we go back to those halcyon times for Corporate America?

[Image: 51K8GMZQ01L._SX326_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg]

https://www.amazon.com/Good-Old-Days-The...0394709411

This book is from 1974, and it refers to the latter part of the 19th century, when most families who weren't industrial laborers, miners, loggers, day laborers, farm laborers, domestic servants, ill-paid clerks, or marginal farmers had things great. The only problem was that most people then were industrial laborers, miners, loggers, day laborers, farm laborers, domestic servants, ill-paid clerks, or marginal farmers had things great.

Go forward about thirty years from the late 19th century, and guess what I find? I've known lots of GIs... and I have a fair idea of how the non-elite GI childhood went. The non-elite GI childhood looks hardscabble now.

I have known few GIs who had any nostalgia for the 1920s. They should know.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#14
Quote:A speculative boom allegedly creating wealth but in fact devouring it was well underway. 1926? There was no unemployment insurance; industrial unions were ineffective because employers could fire anyone for union activity; there was no minimum wage. If an employer insisted that one do 'voluntary' unpaid overtime, then one did so or the employer voluntarily fired  the employee. The ethos of the Gilded Age was much in effect in business and industry.

But just as we could easily re-create the tax code etc. of the Eisenhower '50s without also bringing back Jim Crow etc., we could easily re-create the labor shortages of the second half of the 1920s without also bringing back the above conditions.

The bottom line is that, one way or another, we have to lend a helping hand to the so-called "underclass" - since either we help them, or we will have to fight them, either in the form of crime, or of revolution; and if helping them in the "Marxian" way is impossible, then helping them in the "Malthusian" way is better than not helping them at all - and so long as any significant number of Americans who had even the "use of reason" as per Roman Catholic doctrine at any point during the Cold War is still alive, "democratic socialism" is impossible in America.
"It was better with them that were slain by the sword, than with them that died with hunger, for these pined away being consumed for want of the fruits of the earth" - Lamentations 4:9
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#15
(07-18-2016, 12:11 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:
(07-18-2016, 09:21 AM)Anthony Wrote:
Quote:So what does "Make America Great Again" mean to the Trump supporter? Probably the Gilded Age if one is part of an economic elite -- the time in which working people knew their miserable place in life and got mowed down if they challenged the roles of elites. For people in much of the Mountain South it means having a job.


You know and I know that is not the Gilded Age that Trump wants to take us back to - but rather the Eisenhower '50s.

If you want the Gilded Age, vote for Gary Johnson.

Rather odd to say that a Kremlin bufu would be tagged as taking us back to the Eisenhower '50s. No, he wants to take us to a previously unknown point in US history - ultimately, as a Tributary State to Russia / the SCO / the Evil Empire.

You got it right - it's not the 1920s or the 1950's; it's August 23, 1939 -

Trump would not leap to defend Baltic states from Russian attack: NYT

Why Russia Is Rejoicing Over Trump 
Dropping threatening language from the GOP platform is just the sort of bonus Moscow expects from its man Donald. 

[Image: Putin%20smiles_zpsne25exgr.jpg]
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#16
For F'n-sakes, the NATO Secretary General felt the need to reassure our allies after The Drump's crazy talk -

[Image: nato.jpg?1469110532]

Trump is a serious idiot - the tip of this nation's iceberg of millions of know-nothing serious idiots.
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#17
If Trump is elected, it's August 1939 all over again. Putin will feel, hey! I can march into Estonia and my buddy, Dear old Drumpf, will look the other way. Oh boy, let's go! And then Trump would suddenly get religion and declare war on Russia, and WWIII here we go! After all, America wins!

The idea that America must "win" is the reason we stayed in Vietnam too. LBJ, according to reports, would not stop the war because HE, LBJ, didn't want to be the first US president to lose a war. Imagine Drumpf, with any fight that comes along; America must WIN it at all costs, he'll think. And fast! "We don't win any more. When I'm president, America will win so much you'll be sick of winning!" Sick, is the word. How many wars will it take for Drumpf to prove that America is winning again?





https://youtu.be/nMQD6FGGBzw?t=2m23s
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#18
(07-21-2016, 07:50 AM)Anthony 58 Wrote:
Quote:A speculative boom allegedly creating wealth but in fact devouring it was well underway. 1926? There was no unemployment insurance; industrial unions were ineffective because employers could fire anyone for union activity; there was no minimum wage. If an employer insisted that one do 'voluntary' unpaid overtime, then one did so or the employer voluntarily fired  the employee. The ethos of the Gilded Age was much in effect in business and industry.

But just as we could easily re-create the tax code etc. of the Eisenhower '50s without also bringing back Jim Crow etc., we could easily re-create the labor shortages of the second half of the 1920s without also bringing back the above conditions.

As Brower points out, workers in the 1920s had no rights; zero. They were treated like slaves. Remember how Ford treated his workers before his plant was finally unionized against his will. If they organized and didn't obey or produce enough they were beaten. No, Drumpf would not create a labor shortage unless he actually deports tons of illegals. There's no flood of Mexicans crossing the border now. They are here already. And they only take low-paying jobs anyway. Drumpf doesn't even talk about the companies in Silicon Valley who bring Indians over because they are better educated than Americans.

Quote:The bottom line is that, one way or another, we have to lend a helping hand to the so-called "underclass" - since either we help them, or we will have to fight them, either in the form of crime, or of revolution; and if helping them in the "Marxian" way is impossible, then helping them in the "Malthusian" way is better than not helping them at all - and so long as any significant number of Americans who had even the "use of reason" as per Roman Catholic doctrine at any point during the Cold War is still alive, "democratic socialism" is impossible in America.

We had plenty of democratic socialism before Reagan. Reagan is an unnecessary diversion. From my boomer point of view, he is a temporary diversion, an anomaly, a mistake that must be corrected. We can go back again to before Reaganomics, which is not going back too far; and stop going back even farther to Darwin and Malthus, and go forward again to even-better democratic socialism and green economics. Reagan and Bush froze the minimum wage while giving huge tax breaks to the wealthy. It didn't work! The money didn't trickle-down at all. Trickle-down Drump-phoney-nomics must be defeated.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#19
Note my new signature. Garry Kasparov@Kasparov63 16h16 hours ago

It’s Demagoguery 101: When you don’t have actual answers, exaggerate the problems with fear & hatred in order to blind people with emotion.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#20
(07-22-2016, 12:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: If Trump is elected, it's August 1939 all over again. Putin will feel, hey! I can march into Estonia and my buddy, Dear old Drumpf, will look the other way. Oh boy, let's go! And then Trump would suddenly get religion and declare war on Russia, and WWIII here we go! After all, America wins!

The idea that America must "win" is the reason we stayed in Vietnam too. LBJ, according to reports, would not stop the war because HE, LBJ, didn't want to be the first US president to lose a war. Imagine Drumpf, with any fight that comes along; America must WIN it at all costs, he'll think. And fast! "We don't win any more. When I'm president, America will win so much you'll be sick of winning!" Sick, is the word. How many wars will it take for Drumpf to prove that America is winning again?





https://youtu.be/nMQD6FGGBzw?t=2m23s

I think that war is more likely with Clinton. Trump is a pragmatist.
 … whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)
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