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House of Representatives impeaches President Donald Trump
#1
House of Representatives impeaches President Donald Trump

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/18/polit...index.html
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#2
I am hearing it needs to go to senate first and then even then he still will be pres so what is the accomplishment here?

resident kiwi still finds all this amusing. Let me get my popcorn and sit down for the entertainment.

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1984 Apollonian Civic
ISFP - The Artist.






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#3
How far the US has fallen.

The USA is now an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state flooded with illegal immigrants.

Nixon was almost impeached for wiretapping a hotel, but Trump is wiretapping the entire US and no one cares.

Clinton was nearly impeached for getting a blowjob, but Trump broke the law by paying for sex with a prostitute.

How can Americans sleep at night while the USA collapses?

How can Americans look in the mirror today without feeling disgusted and ashamed?
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#4
(12-19-2019, 02:24 AM)Kay Wrote: How far the US has fallen.

The USA is now an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state flooded with illegal immigrants.

America is not a police state yet, but re-elect Donald Trump and it will go that way. Maybe it is not that bankrupt. This can be said: if America were the sort of country that turns its poor into cannon fodder for wars for profit, then it won't be attractive to many immigrants. Countries with the apparatus of a police state also tend to have brain drains... smart, creative people who chafe under intellectual restrictions and people who have no chance of turning their entrepreneurial talents into businesses under a monopolistic economy tend to go elsewhere. 


Quote:Nixon was almost impeached for wiretapping a hotel, but Trump is wiretapping the entire US and no one cares.

Uh... if he really were wiretapping the entire USA, then there would be plenty of work for people to monitor the contents of our conversations. Imagine a joke like this:

Trump died, and he was shocked to find that where he had gone, the first person that he met was Leonid Brezhnev. The two corrupt, despotic figures struck a conversation in which the topic of economics. 

Brezhnev expressed the trouble of the Soviet economy: "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us, says the worker of farm or factory". 

Trump suggested "We saddle people with debt, so they have to work... and we pay them with credit, so they stay in debt!"

Say that over a phone, and you might get five years if we had such a police state. 
  

Quote:Clinton was nearly impeached for getting a blowjob, but Trump broke the law by paying for sex with a prostitute.

Clinton would have never gotten away with that in the last ten years or so... Paying a prostitute for sex with a prostitute is legal in some parts of Nevada. Grabbing a woman or girl by her "kitty-cat" is some criminal sexual conduct in Michigan (I do not know the law in all states) and rape if there is any penetration. 

More seriously, he told the newly-elected President of Ukraine that to get much-needed military aid authorized by Congress, then that new President would be expected to smear the son of one of the President's most likely opponents. If a President can get away with that, then what else could he do? Solicit a murder?

Democrats are serious about such behavior enough to vote to impeach the President. Republicans know the consequences and dread them. 


Quote:How can Americans sleep at night while the USA collapses?

If they are apathetic enough about the political system and the survival of exploitative elites who  create suffering for the masses while indulging themselves, then they might sleep well enough. If you wonder how much people dreaded the downfall of the Roman Empire... the serfs and slaves saw such as liberation. 
 
Quote:How can Americans look in the mirror today without feeling disgusted and ashamed?

About themselves or about their current government? I voted against the creep, so I can't feel guilty about my political choice. I feel disgusted about the choice that many Americans made of supporting a lying demagogue with no moral compass... I have hope that enough people will vote differently in 2020 than in 2016.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#5
Americans want to think that they live in a peaceful, free country with a balanced budget, but that belief is not true.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.

You know that you live in a police state when everything is illegal and you have no rights.

You have no free speech rights, religious rights, gun rights, there is civil forfeiture, the government wiretaps your phone, records your web history, reads your email, takes away your right to silence, can torture you, and can extrajudicuallly assassinate you.

Your taxes fund illegal immigrants, debt, endless wars, curfews, checkpoints, no fly lists, private prisons, mandatory minimums, 3 strikes laws, DNA databases, CISPA, SOPA, NDAA, IMBRA, FBAR, FATCA laws, TSA groping, secret FISA courts, and Jade Helm.

The elites are obviously going all the way to destroy the world. Just look at history and Mao, Hitler, and Stalin.

When Americans remain quiet about rising debt, Obamacare, food stamps, regulations, endless US wars, increasing taxes, illegal immigrants, nanny state laws, security cameras, license plate readers, checkpoints, redlight cameras, speed cameras, FBI facial and voice recognition, curfews, gun bans, NSA wiretapping, the end to the right to silence, free speech bans, searches without warrants, private prisons, mandatory minimums, 3 strikes laws, DNA databases, CISPA, SOPA, NDAA, IMBRA, private prison quotas, no knock raids, take down notices, no fly lists, terror watch lists, Constitution free zones, stop and frisk, 3 strikes laws, kill switches, National Security Letters, kill lists, FBAR, FATCA, Operation Chokepoint, TSA groping, civil forfeiture, CIA torture, NDAA indefinite detention, secret FISA courts, FEMA camps, laws requiring passports for domestic travel, IRS laws denying passports for tax debts, gun and ammo stockpiles, laws outlawing protesting, police militarization, chain gangs, boot camps, and Jade Helm what kind of message does that send to the elites?

Do you think the 1% is just going to turn around and restore freedom? Do you think our overlords are just going to stop increasing tyranny on their own?

Unless Americans start speaking out, resisting, protesting, getting out into the streets with pitchforks and torches, tar and feathering the elites, cops, soldiers, politicians, government workers, and media puppets, breaking windows, setting fires, and killing people, Americans will end up in the concentration camps.

There’s no hope. The US will be lucky to last another 30 years.

The best we can do now is to warn people to study history and prepare.

The USA is a bankrupt warmongering police state.

The line has been crossed. The Bill of Rights will never be restored. Even if the government said that they have ended NSA wiretapping, CIA torture, NDAA indefinite detention, and secret FISA courts, who would believe them?

The 1% appears intent on causing an economic collapse, a civil war, and WWIII.

Those fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.

https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-tur...n-collapse

http://www.desototimes.com/opinion/colum...99d50.html

http://blog.pennlive.com/capitol-noteboo...new_s.html

http://journalstar.com/news/opinion/edit...e6182.html

http://nevadanewsandviews.com/welcome-to...l-america/

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tsa-begin...00663.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standof...ne_le.html

https://www.yahoo.com/news/man-californi...12988.html

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2017/4/7/345...olice.aspx

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/i...a82deb9e5d

http://www.telegram.com/news/20160505/wo...-stop-sues

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/co...73524.html

http://libertarian.forumbuild.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4
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#6
(12-19-2019, 02:24 AM)Kay Wrote: How far the US has fallen.

The USA is now an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state flooded with illegal immigrants.

Nixon was almost impeached for wiretapping a hotel, but Trump is wiretapping the entire US and no one cares.

Clinton was nearly impeached for getting a blowjob, but Trump broke the law by paying for sex with a prostitute.

How can Americans sleep at night while the USA collapses?

How can Americans look in the mirror today without feeling disgusted and ashamed?

Trump not only paid for a prostitute, but paid to cover it up. And he diverted funds donated to his charities to his political campaign.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#7
(12-20-2019, 07:03 AM)Muffy Wrote: One wonders how much dirt the NSA has on Trump to make him defend the police state so strongly.

http://www.operatorchan.org/n/

UNRELIABLE SOURCE -- crackpot blog!

Obama did not have as much difficulty with the national-security apparatus and federal law enforcement. He avoided challenge with it  by avoiding shady behavior. Break the law, or act in ways that suggest that you are breaking the law, and you draw attention of the Feds, including the IRS.

Trump is the shadiest critter to ever be President, which explains why there is a Mueller Report.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#8
(12-19-2019, 01:01 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(12-19-2019, 02:24 AM)Kay Wrote: How far the US has fallen.

The USA is now an immoral bankrupt warmongering police state flooded with illegal immigrants.

Nixon was almost impeached for wiretapping a hotel, but Trump is wiretapping the entire US and no one cares.

Clinton was nearly impeached for getting a blowjob, but Trump broke the law by paying for sex with a prostitute.

How can Americans sleep at night while the USA collapses?

How can Americans look in the mirror today without feeling disgusted and ashamed?

Trump not only paid for a prostitute, but paid to cover it up. And he diverted funds donated to his charities to his political campaign.

Campaign-law violations, and potentially bank fraud, mail fraud, wire fraud, or money laundering; such is potential grist for new articles of impeachment. Nancy Pelosi has those potentially in reserve in case Senate Republicans whitewash President Trump. The two articles of impeachment may not be the last should Senate Republicans vote on close to party lines on impeachment. 

An imaginable solution that does not involve clipping the President's ability to function as President is to establish an ad hoc  regency to stop the President from committing acts of gross immorality and offense. The problem is that we have no provision for such in the Constitution. This man has no moral compass, so he acts wildly. Maybe we cannot stop his reactionary agenda; elections have consequences. America voted him in and it is past time to challenge his election and that of his sycophants in the Senate.

Most people have a conscience that can say no to gross misconduct, including outright crime.  Trump has no conscience, and what seems obvious to me did not seem obvious enough to enough people -- or they saw it and thought that it might get good results. If Nancy Pelosi cannot get the President impeached, then she can discredit some of the President's sycophants in November 2020 and perhaps 2022.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#9
(12-23-2019, 06:52 AM)mbt Wrote: This feels like Obama's 3rd term.

More like Dubya's second as a disaster.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#10
The counsel to the Democrats in the House says Trump could be impeached a second time if they hear more about his obstruction from McGahn. I'd say we are also waiting for a lot more: all his tax records and the documents he has withheld, and all the witnesses that the House has gone to Court to get to testify. Why not hold up the trial now until we get everything? We've got the impeachment done. And if the trial is held up for several months, that will give senators the time they need to campaign in the primary.

Trump has violated the emoluments clause by hosting foreign officials at his hotels and such. He violated campaign finance laws by using money from his charity to finance his campaign. He paid hush money to a prostitute. He obstructed justice, as the Mueller Report described. He may have committed tax fraud and made himself beholden to the Russians. What else could be revealed if we can get all the documents and witnesses that have already been subpoenaed?
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#11
(12-23-2019, 11:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The counsel to the Democrats in the House says Trump could be impeached a second time if they hear more about his obstruction from McGahn. I'd say we are also waiting for a lot more: all his tax records and the documents he has withheld, and all the witnesses that the House has gone to Court to get to testify. Why not hold up the trial now until we get everything? We've got the impeachment done. And if the trial is held up for several months, that will give senators the time they need to campaign in the primary.

Trump has violated the emoluments clause by hosting foreign officials at his hotels and such. He violated campaign finance laws by using money from his charity to finance his campaign. He paid hush money to a prostitute. He obstructed justice, as the Mueller Report described. He may have committed tax fraud and made himself beholden to the Russians. What else could be revealed if we can get all the documents and witnesses that have already been subpoenaed?

Nothing precludes a second impeachment except

(1) absence of a meaningful cause for such, or
(2) successful impeachment and removal for "high crimes and misdemeanors", or for gross inability
(3) resignation 

War crimes and crimes against humanity, for example, would be impeachable deeds whether the President had avoided impeachment and removal for such an offense as embezzlement. The President does not get a clean sheet except perhaps on a deed of which he is cleared.   

Question remains about whether the Republican majority in the Senate will vote to impeach and remove the President even if deeds involving the attempt to extort a deal to investigate the son of the President's main rival should prove manifestly unfounded. At this point I expect a complete whitewash, with Senate Republicans even seeking to dismiss the case on a parliamentary procedure (the quick up-and-down vote with a predictable result).
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#12
(12-24-2019, 12:22 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Nothing precludes a second impeachment except

(1) absence of a meaningful cause for such, or
(2) successful impeachment and removal for "high crimes and misdemeanors", or for gross inability
(3) resignation 

War crimes and crimes against humanity, for example, would be impeachable deeds whether the President had avoided impeachment and removal for such an offense as embezzlement. The President does not get a clean sheet except perhaps on a deed of which he is cleared.   

Question remains about whether the Republican majority in the Senate will vote to impeach and remove the President even if deeds involving the attempt to extort a deal to investigate the son of the President's main rival should prove manifestly unfounded. At this point I expect a complete whitewash, with Senate Republicans even seeking to dismiss the case on a parliamentary procedure (the quick up-and-down vote with a predictable result).
Dude, one could argue that dropping the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima was a war crime and refer to it as a crime against humanity. I already told you what I expect to see once Pelosi lets go of it and makes it official by sending it to the Senate for a formal trial. Like I've mentioned, you don't have worry about the Republicans, the Republicans are nothing compared us. I expect to see a real American trial. What do we need the liberals for these days? What are the liberals really good for these days?
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#13
(12-23-2019, 11:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The counsel to the Democrats in the House says Trump could be impeached a second time if they hear more about his obstruction from McGahn. I'd say we are also waiting for a lot more: all his tax records and the documents he has withheld, and all the witnesses that the House has gone to Court to get to testify. Why not hold up the trial now until we get everything? We've got the impeachment done. And if the trial is held up for several months, that will give senators the time they need to campaign in the primary.

Trump has violated the emoluments clause by hosting foreign officials at his hotels and such. He violated campaign finance laws by using money from his charity to finance his campaign. He paid hush money to a prostitute. He obstructed justice, as the Mueller Report described. He may have committed tax fraud and made himself beholden to the Russians. What else could be revealed if we can get all the documents and witnesses that have already been subpoenaed?
Liberal's are sure nosy about his private affairs and his private life and situations that may or may not have occurred prior to entering office. Well, I see a bunch of career politicians on the Democratic side who some how or another managed to to get really wealthy while in office. How many shit people do you have representing your interests and the interests of the poor people on your side these days? You have a very hard time convincing me that there isn't a lot of them on your side these days based on what I've observed going on with your side over the years? So, what stupid shit could the liberals do today that opens the door to formal inquiries, investigations that result in their eliminations?
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#14
(12-26-2019, 05:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(12-23-2019, 11:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The counsel to the Democrats in the House says Trump could be impeached a second time if they hear more about his obstruction from McGahn. I'd say we are also waiting for a lot more: all his tax records and the documents he has withheld, and all the witnesses that the House has gone to Court to get to testify. Why not hold up the trial now until we get everything? We've got the impeachment done. And if the trial is held up for several months, that will give senators the time they need to campaign in the primary.

Trump has violated the emoluments clause by hosting foreign officials at his hotels and such. He violated campaign finance laws by using money from his charity to finance his campaign. He paid hush money to a prostitute. He obstructed justice, as the Mueller Report described. He may have committed tax fraud and made himself beholden to the Russians. What else could be revealed if we can get all the documents and witnesses that have already been subpoenaed?

Liberals are sure nosy about his private affairs and his private life and situations that may or may not have occurred prior to entering office. Well, I see a bunch of career politicians on the Democratic side who some how or another managed to to get really wealthy while in office. How many shit people do you have representing your interests and the interests of the poor people on your side these days? You have a very hard time convincing me that there isn't a lot of them on your side these days based on what I've observed going on with your side over the years? So, what stupid shit could the liberals do today that opens the door to formal inquiries, investigations that result in their eliminations?

Donald Trump has been a publicity-hound all his life, and now that he is President he wants people who have covered him for non-political reasons to act in secrecy or to get carte blanche  with which to denounce anything that he dislikes with the duty of the rest of us to see the President's declamations as unvarnished truth?

If you ride the gaudy horse that is publicity for your own gain and self-esteem, then you should not be surprised when you do wayward things and get called for such. Fame can transmute into shame very fast; just ask Bill Cosby about serious crimes or Lindsey Lohan for minor offenses.  On the other hand, Jimmy Stewart led the sort of life that kept his name and image out of the scandal sheets, and it wasn't Billy Graham who was caught with a prostitute or his hands in the cookie jar. Know well: the lowest level of journalism, the sort that seeks out smears of celebrities for bad behavior, has been around for at least a century, and it isn't going away. That sort of journalism is even more lucrative than 'straight' reporting, so it is not going away. (I know what I would not 'out', such as ethnicity or sexual orientation, but I could imagine what I would treat as fair game -- such as crime and dirty dealings).

It is not a question of being liberal or conservative. Jimmy Stewart was quite reactionary in his politics, but he was not going to let that get in the way of winning audiences that may have not liked his politics. Of course, if one is in electoral politics, practically everything that one says is in the limelight. Obama withstood that well; Trump hasn't. I look at how Obama made a good team with Governor Rick Scott and Chris Christie in responding to hurricanes; a Democratic President and in both cases a Republican Governor made an effective ad hoc team. Hurricanes are the wrong arena for partisan politics. 

If I were one of his advisers I would insist that he give up Twitter. He is not using it well. Obama seems to have had every one of his statements go through at least some proof-reading by staff.

Above all -- Trump has said and done things uncharacteristic of a gentleman. I need not repeat myself.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#15
(12-26-2019, 05:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(12-24-2019, 12:22 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Nothing precludes a second impeachment except

(1) absence of a meaningful cause for such, or
(2) successful impeachment and removal for "high crimes and misdemeanors", or for gross inability
(3) resignation 

War crimes and crimes against humanity, for example, would be impeachable deeds whether the President had avoided impeachment and removal for such an offense as embezzlement. The President does not get a clean sheet except perhaps on a deed of which he is cleared.   

Question remains about whether the Republican majority in the Senate will vote to impeach and remove the President even if deeds involving the attempt to extort a deal to investigate the son of the President's main rival should prove manifestly unfounded. At this point I expect a complete whitewash, with Senate Republicans even seeking to dismiss the case on a parliamentary procedure (the quick up-and-down vote with a predictable result).

Dude, one could argue that dropping the nuclear bomb on Hiroshima was a war crime and refer to it as a crime against humanity. I already told you what I expect to see once Pelosi lets go of it and makes it official by sending it to the Senate for a formal  trial. Like I've mentioned, you don't have worry about the Republicans, the Republicans are nothing compared us. I expect to see a real American trial. What do we need the liberals for these days? What are the liberals really good for these days?

Had the Japanese government recognized that all was lost, that had the war continued into late 1945 Japan would have gone into famine (the Japanese depended upon shipments of food from occupied countries while the usual farm laborers of Japan were pointing rifles at rice farmers under occupation), and had the thug regime of Japan not done such horrific crimes as the Bataan Death March as a norm, then maybe Harry Truman would have never had the opportunity to use the atom bomb on Japan. Japan was on the brink of economic collapse because of the Allied naval blockade that cut off the food that the Japanese needed. Japanese soldiers and sailors went back to the rice fields and harvested the rice crop -- and famine was averted. 

If you are thinking that Truman would have never done the same to Germany -- Germany capitulated before the US even had a working atom bomb. Had D-Day failed and the Wehrmacht started having successes in turning back Allied offensives on all fronts , then maybe Germany would have been in the war long enough to experience an atom bomb or two in the autumn of 1945. Oh, but the Germans were white, unlike the Japanese? By 1945 Americans had largely forgotten that Germans were white. The Allies would have had a pretext for using the atomic bomb on Germany -- the Holocaust. So a bunch of leading Nazis celebrate in some German city that that city is now Judenrein*... those leaders and people celebrating such with them get incinerated.    

War crimes trials excuse mistakes, including miscalculations. Those trials do not exculpate pure murder, rape, kidnapping, or plunder. 

*"free of Jews"
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#16
(12-26-2019, 05:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(12-23-2019, 11:15 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The counsel to the Democrats in the House says Trump could be impeached a second time if they hear more about his obstruction from McGahn. I'd say we are also waiting for a lot more: all his tax records and the documents he has withheld, and all the witnesses that the House has gone to Court to get to testify. Why not hold up the trial now until we get everything? We've got the impeachment done. And if the trial is held up for several months, that will give senators the time they need to campaign in the primary.

Trump has violated the emoluments clause by hosting foreign officials at his hotels and such. He violated campaign finance laws by using money from his charity to finance his campaign. He paid hush money to a prostitute. He obstructed justice, as the Mueller Report described. He may have committed tax fraud and made himself beholden to the Russians. What else could be revealed if we can get all the documents and witnesses that have already been subpoenaed?
Liberal's are sure nosy about his private affairs and his private life and situations that may or may not have occurred prior to entering office. Well, I see a bunch of career politicians on the Democratic side who some how or another managed to to get really wealthy while in office. How many shit people do you have representing your interests and the interests of the poor people on your side these days? You have a very hard time convincing me that there isn't a lot of them on your side these days based on what I've observed going on with your side over the years? So, what stupid shit could the liberals do today that opens the door to formal inquiries, investigations that result in their eliminations?

I thought the Republicans were RATHER  nosy about the private affairs of Mr. Clinton. so what's this comment for?

Corrupt liberals do exist and they pay the price. Even in my district my liberal rep had some corruption and he was replaced by Ro Khanna. The district lines shifted, and now I am in the district next door, and we have a primary challenger who is very similar to Ro, and an incumbent who seems bought by the drug companies. So it took Ro a couple of runs, so we'll see what happens.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
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#17
(12-26-2019, 08:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I thought the Republicans were RATHER  nosy about the private affairs of Mr. Clinton. so what's this comment for?

Corrupt liberals do exist and they pay the price. Even in my district my liberal rep had some corruption and he was replaced by Ro Khanna. The district lines shifted, and now I am in the district next door, and we have a primary challenger who is very similar to Ro, and an incumbent who seems bought by the drug companies. So it took Ro a couple of runs, so we'll see what happens.
The Republicans had a right to be nosy about an affair of Mr. Clinton's that took place in the White House (the oval office) of all places while he was President. Clinton fucking over some goo goo gah gah liberal dame wasn't new or upsetting to me at the time. I wasn't a Democratic or a woman voter back then. Like I said, if he wasn't such a liberal pussy (darling) who was accustomed to being allowed to get away with shit, he would have admitted it and spared himself the misery of being forced to apologize and admit that he had lied while under oath while UNDER OATH as part of a political plea deal that would allow him to remain in office and finish out the rest of his term in office. Is Ro Khanna as sharp and as able to play with emotions as AOC? Do you have room for AOC and all her supporters when she loses her seat to a core Gen Xr who is more American minded ? I'm not worried about her movie stars. Hell, they've got the money and resources available to them to can pack up and move to California anytime they please.
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#18
(12-26-2019, 06:37 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Had the Japanese government recognized that all was lost, that had the war continued into late 1945 Japan would have gone into famine (the Japanese depended upon shipments of food from occupied countries while the usual farm laborers of Japan were pointing rifles at rice farmers under occupation), and had the thug regime of Japan not done such horrific crimes as the Bataan Death March as a norm, then maybe Harry Truman would have never had the opportunity to use the atom bomb on Japan. Japan was on the brink of economic collapse because of the Allied naval blockade that cut off the food that the Japanese needed. Japanese soldiers and sailors went back to the rice fields and harvested the rice crop -- and famine was averted. 

If you are thinking that Truman would have never done the same to Germany -- Germany capitulated before the US even had a working atom bomb. Had D-Day failed and the Wehrmacht started having successes in turning back Allied offensives on all fronts , then maybe Germany would have been in the war long enough to experience an atom bomb or two in the autumn of 1945. Oh, but the Germans were white, unlike the Japanese? By 1945 Americans had largely forgotten that Germans were white. The Allies would have had a pretext for using the atomic bomb on Germany -- the Holocaust. So a bunch of leading Nazis celebrate in some German city that that city is now Judenrein*... those leaders and people celebrating such with them get incinerated.    

War crimes trials excuse mistakes, including miscalculations. Those trials do not exculpate pure murder, rape, kidnapping, or plunder. 

*"free of Jews"
Don't forget that the Italians were mainly white too? We fire bombed Dresden and killed thousands of white citizens which some on today's Left could view as a war crime and use as an argument against us (America) these days too. You better start paying attention because your future (what's left of it) is most likely being determined right now. I think Middle America has had enough of the Democratic party these days. I think Heartland Democrats better figure out a way to separate/differentiate themselves from the Left pretty quick before the al the shit with today's Left raise up a notch and begins to get really serious. You dumb enough to politically tie yourself to the pretty boy governor of the liberal shit state of California? He kind of reminds me of liberal pretty boy John Edwards. Didn't he wow you as a candidate until you learned what a piece of shit human being he was at the core? Gee, if you had my instinctual capabilities and you weren't as prone to superficial human qualities and emotional feelings you get from liberal candidates, you would not have chosen him as quickly or chosen Obama as quickly either.
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#19
(12-19-2019, 12:42 AM)taramarie Wrote: I am hearing it needs to go to senate first and then even then he still will be pres so what is the accomplishment here?

resident kiwi still finds all this amusing. Let me get my popcorn and sit down for the entertainment.

[Image: tenor.gif?itemid=3579864]
Yep, Pelosi has to sign off and send Trumps Articles of Impeachment to the Senate for them to be formally recognized and made official. Now, if you lived here and understood American law ( which most liberals who live here don't seem to understand or appreciate these days and are to dumb to figure out it's importance relating to them and their lives) and understood it's importance to most adult (35 and older) Americans these days. Yes, the nanny state has had an impact and extended the age of immaturity a decade or so here for some (several million). You would be able to understand why Pelosi is in the unenviable position/predicament that she's in now. She can act like a teenage girl, continue to use it inappropriately as bargaining chip and run the risk of openly breaking American law further than she already has done and has been able to do without running into any major problem in front of the eyes of every American citizen who isn't limited to basic TV channels or all that partisan when it comes to more important matters relating to them or their country.
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#20
(12-26-2019, 06:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump has been a publicity-hound all his life, and now that he is President he wants people who have covered him for non-political reasons to act in secrecy or to get carte blanche  with which to denounce anything that he dislikes with the duty of the rest of us to see the President's declamations as unvarnished truth?

If you ride the gaudy horse that is publicity for your own gain and self-esteem, then you should not be surprised when you do wayward things and get called for such. Fame can transmute into shame very fast; just ask Bill Cosby about serious crimes or Lindsey Lohan for minor offenses.  On the other hand, Jimmy Stewart led the sort of life that kept his name and image out of the scandal sheets, and it wasn't Billy Graham who was caught with a prostitute or his hands in the cookie jar. Know well: the lowest level of journalism, the sort that seeks out smears of celebrities for bad behavior, has been around for at least a century, and it isn't going away. That sort of journalism is even more lucrative than 'straight' reporting, so it is not going away. (I know what I would not 'out', such as ethnicity or sexual orientation, but I could imagine what I would treat as fair game -- such as crime and dirty dealings).

It is not a question of being liberal or conservative. Jimmy Stewart was quite reactionary in his politics, but he was not going to let that get in the way of winning audiences that may have not liked his politics. Of course, if one is in electoral politics, practically everything that one says is in the limelight. Obama withstood that well; Trump hasn't. I look at how Obama made a good team with Governor Rick Scott and Chris Christie in responding to hurricanes; a Democratic President and in both cases a Republican Governor made an effective ad hoc team. Hurricanes are the wrong arena for partisan politics. 

If I were one of his advisers I would insist that he give up Twitter. He is not using it well. Obama seems to have had every one of his statements go through at least some proof-reading by staff.

Above all -- Trump has said and done things uncharacteristic of a gentleman. I need not repeat myself.
Yes, he is a publicity hound and he has also proved to be very good at and very effective with beating liberals at their own game as well. Had you been around during the Bush years, you would have seen a right wing poster pretty much doing the same thing with a much larger liberal based forum than you seen during the Obama years or the remnants (the last of the old liberal fogies) that your still hanging out with/ clinging too today.
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