The Coronavirus

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-30-2020, 05:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.

They're your racist murders, not ours.  These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.

Almost all cities are Democratic controlled, because that's where Democrats live in our divided urban vs. rural society, but there have been famous police racist murders on rural streets in Louisiana and in Texas too, as well as in smaller cities in Ohio and the northern midwest as I recall, as well as that small town in Georgia recently where former policemen murdered a young black athlete just out for a jog.

The cities with the most police killings are in red and purple states. The map of police killings in 2019 do not exclude any area of the country. Blacks are 3x more likely to be victims of police killings. Only one out of 100 police killers are ever convicted for their crime, which is why blacks people get so angry. The cities with the most police killings were in red states like Oklahoma (the worst, and it is Republican-controlled), Arizona, Missouri, Texas, Nebraska, Florida.... Despite the well-known Eric Garner case, which was similar to the Minneapolis one, blue New York has the least number of police killings according to this site.
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Meanie. You are forcing the poor guy to make up new delusions.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-30-2020, 05:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.

They're your racist murders, not ours.  These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.

Almost all cities are Democratic controlled, because that's where Democrats live in our divided urban vs. rural society, but there have been famous police racist murders on rural streets in Louisiana and in Texas too, as well as in smaller cities in Ohio and the northern midwest as I recall, as well as that small town in Georgia recently where former policemen murdered a young black athlete just out for a jog.

The cities with the most police killings are in red and purple states. The map of police killings in 2019 do not exclude any area of the country. Blacks are 3x more likely to be victims of police killings. Only one out of 100 police killers are ever convicted for their crime, which is why blacks people get so angry. The cities with the most police killings were in red states like Oklahoma (OK City is the worst, and it is Republican-controlled), Arizona, Missouri, Texas, Nebraska, Florida.... Despite the well-known Eric Garner case, which was similar to the Minneapolis one, blue New York has the least number of police killings according to this site.
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

I don't think you're going to have much of a police force to worry about in the future. We'll still have them in our areas but you won't be able to find anyone dumb enough to do it for you for much longer. You've probably seen last of Minnesota nice. So, how big are the Democratic plantations these days? Are they big enough to support every ghetto slug, so called global citizen, illegal immigrant or legal immigrant or dip shit Democrat that doesn't seem to get it that currently reside in Minnesota? I must admit, I've never really tried to make life for liberals miserable here. I could but I've never really tried to do it yet. I told you that blue America wouldn't be ready for what's coming. As far as I'm concerned, that's my only moral obligation to you and others here. You see, I'm only really obligated to forewarn and already fulfilled that obligation. So, what happens to blues is pretty on the blues and if blues come in and do or say stupid shit that make matters worse then tough shit. Honestly, I don't really care if a group of ghetto slugs and blue morons venture onto a freeway and get flattened by a semi truck. I don't care if they fuck up the Twin Cities even worse than the Covid19 virus already fucked them up.

[Classic-Xer]

(05-30-2020, 05:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.

They're your racist murders, not ours.  These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.

Almost all cities are Democratic controlled, because that's where Democrats live in our divided urban vs. rural society, but there have been famous police racist murders on rural streets in Louisiana and in Texas too, as well as in smaller cities in Ohio and the northern midwest as I recall, as well as that small town in Georgia recently where former policemen murdered a young black athlete just out for a jog.

The cities with the most police killings are in red and purple states. The map of police killings in 2019 do not exclude any area of the country. Blacks are 3x more likely to be victims of police killings. Only one out of 100 police killers are ever convicted for their crime, which is why blacks people get so angry. The cities with the most police killings were in red states like Oklahoma (OK City is the worst, and it is Republican-controlled), Arizona, Missouri, Texas, Nebraska, Florida.... Despite the well-known Eric Garner case, which was similar to the Minneapolis one, blue New York has the least number of police killings according to this site.
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Why do I have to remind you that the Republican voters aren't dumb enough to live in Democratic controlled areas or dumb enough to support Marxist policies or dumb enough to give up their guns or their religion or anything else tied to their Constitutional rights? Me, I'd say that life for a liberal ghetto slug must be much more dangerous in the Republican south than it is in the more ghetto slug friendly places like California and New York. How close is Minnesota to becoming more like the Republican south than the Democratic northeast and Democratic west coast? I'd say it's a lot closer today than it was a week ago. We have similar laws on the books. OK cop hater. I hope you don't mind that I lumped you in with the cop haters on your side. You may not be one but you project the same mentality and tend to either go along or promote their views. I realize that your party of choice fucked them over for years and is still fucking them over today. So why are you mad at Republican voters and their politicians for not doing the same things as your party of choice has been doing for centuries. Lets see, your system of choice whether it be old European or newer European or old Asian or newer Asian or whatever system that grants governments more power than our Constitutional system allows. I'm not your dad but if I was your dad, I would have shown you the door and booted your ass along time ago. Oh and if your mom had a problem, I would have booted her along with you and paid whatever percentage the court determined. So, how much of Nancy's wealth do you want? We don't care about Nancy's wealth or liberal wealth for that matter. Feel free to help yourself and feel free to burn their homes to the ground and feel free to rape and pillage and feel free to cut off their heads too. We won't tolerate it and we will slaughter those who fuck up and venture beyond boarders and eventually exterminate them all once they're finished.

[David Horn]

(05-29-2020, 10:13 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 08:58 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 12:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Unfortunately, the we are in this together slogan isn't going to last much longer. We are seeing your sides leadership in Minneapolis RIGHT NOW and it sucks. Personally, I don't care if your blue folks loot and burn the fucking place to the ground.

If the four cops had been arrested immediately and held pending charges, I doubt any of this would have occurred.  If they had been charged with murder, it would have stopped this cold.

And what would have happened when the Grand Jury returned no bill due to a premature attempt at indictment?

It's hard to see that happening, since the video is quite explicit.

[pbrower2a]

(05-30-2020, 03:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I don't think you're going to have much of a police force to worry about in the future. We'll still have them in our areas but you won't be able to find anyone dumb enough to do it for you for much longer. You've probably seen last of Minnesota nice. So, how big are the Democratic plantations these days? ... Democrats... doesn't seem to get it that currently reside in Minnesota? I must admit, I've never really tried to make life for liberals miserable here. I could but I've never really tried to do it yet. I told you that blue America wouldn't be ready for what's coming. As far as I'm concerned, that's my only moral obligation to you and others here. You see, I'm only really obligated to forewarn and already fulfilled that obligation. So, what happens to blues is pretty on the blues and if blues come in and do or say stupid shit that make matters worse then tough shit. Honestly, I don't really care if a group of ghetto slugs and blue morons venture onto a freeway and get flattened by a semi truck. I don't care if they fuck up the Twin Cities even worse than the Covid19 virus already fucked them up.

Oh, so to what do people turn when law enforcement isn't around? Lynching?  I think of South Africa in the waning years of Apartheid, when the Apartheid system did nothing to repress black-on-black crime while rigidly enforcing racial segregation. Necklacing? In this the damned had a gasoline-filled tire placed around his arms and torso and it was ignited. I am guessing that most of people who died in that horrible way were rapists, robbers, and murderers. When law enforcement becomes effective and courts of law start offering effective justice, lynchings usually stop.

Don't tell me about "Minnesota Nice". You never were. It has been around for a long time, and it is likely to stick. It took years to develop -- far more years than it took for the Tea Party to get a near-majority consistently in America to now. Donald Trump is the clearest expression of the Tea Party agenda, and his politics are becoming an obnoxious and abject failure.  

You do not represent even a transitory majority in Minnesota. The judicial system will catch up to people who left Target with large and expensive objects but lacking a sack or a receipt. The charges will be for burglary for entering a building without assumed permission and larceny for stealing stuff.Store cameras caught it all, and it will only be a matter of identification. Ideally even welfare is better than crime. 

Blue America is better prepared for social change that results from the troublesome End of Scarcity. It does better in formal education and has stronger institutions. It recognizes Donald Trump for what he is  -- a lying, cheating poseur.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-30-2020, 07:20 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump is the clearest expression of the Tea Party agenda, and his politics are becoming an obnoxious and abject failure. 

I agree with you overall.  Most people see the upcoming election as a referendum on whether the science should be taken seriously, with the common answer being yes.  

Still, Trump has his base of do nothing fantasy dwellers who seem to be killing effective isolation, and thus killing both saving lives and restarting the economy.  The failure is not complete yet.

[Eric the Green]

(05-30-2020, 04:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(05-30-2020, 05:47 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.

They're your racist murders, not ours.  These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.

Almost all cities are Democratic controlled, because that's where Democrats live in our divided urban vs. rural society, but there have been famous police racist murders on rural streets in Louisiana and in Texas too, as well as in smaller cities in Ohio and the northern midwest as I recall, as well as that small town in Georgia recently where former policemen murdered a young black athlete just out for a jog.

The cities with the most police killings are in red and purple states. The map of police killings in 2019 do not exclude any area of the country. Blacks are 3x more likely to be victims of police killings. Only one out of 100 police killers are ever convicted for their crime, which is why blacks people get so angry. The cities with the most police killings were in red states like Oklahoma (OK City is the worst, and it is Republican-controlled), Arizona, Missouri, Texas, Nebraska, Florida.... Despite the well-known Eric Garner case, which was similar to the Minneapolis one, blue New York has the least number of police killings according to this site.
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

Why do I have to remind you that the Republican voters aren't dumb enough to live in Democratic controlled areas or dumb enough to support Marxist policies or dumb enough to give up their guns or their religion or anything else tied to their Constitutional rights?  Me, I'd say that life for a liberal ghetto slug must be much more dangerous in the Republican south  than it is in the more ghetto slug friendly places like California and New York. How close is Minnesota to becoming more like the Republican south than the Democratic northeast and Democratic west coast? I'd say it's a lot closer today than it was a week ago. We have similar laws on the books. OK cop hater. I hope you don't mind that I lumped you in with the cop haters on your side. You may not be one but you project the same mentality and tend to either go along or promote their views. I realize that your party of choice fucked them over for years and is still fucking them over today. So why are you mad at Republican voters and their politicians for not doing the same things as your party of choice has been doing for centuries. Lets see, your system of choice whether it be old European or newer European or old Asian or newer Asian or whatever system that grants governments more power than our Constitutional system allows. I'm not your dad but if I was your dad, I would have shown you the door and booted your ass along time ago. Oh and if your mom had a problem, I would have booted her along with you and paid whatever percentage the court determined.  So, how much of Nancy's wealth do you want? We don't care about Nancy's wealth or liberal wealth for that matter. Feel free to help yourself and feel free to burn their homes to the ground and feel free to rape and pillage and feel free to cut off their heads too. We won't tolerate it and we will slaughter those who fuck up and venture beyond boarders and eventually exterminate them all once they're finished.

Many if not most of the rioters are from outside the blue cities, and many of them are trying to spark violence and get people like you mad so there will be a race war.

I don't care about your gun rights. I don't care about your right to discriminate against gays in the name of religion. I don't care about your need to call us Marxists because we recognize the need for social safety nets, taxes and restrictions on the greedy oligarchs who oppress the people in the name of free enterprise. I don't care about your dislike of immigrants in our global reality.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-30-2020, 04:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Why do I have to remind you that the Republican voters aren't dumb enough to live in Democratic controlled areas or dumb enough to support Marxist policies or dumb enough to give up their guns or their religion or anything else tied to their Constitutional rights?  Me, I'd say that life for a liberal ghetto slug must be much more dangerous in the Republican south  than it is in the more ghetto slug friendly places like California and New York. How close is Minnesota to becoming more like the Republican south than the Democratic northeast and Democratic west coast? I'd say it's a lot closer today than it was a week ago. We have similar laws on the books. OK cop hater. I hope you don't mind that I lumped you in with the cop haters on your side. You may not be one but you project the same mentality and tend to either go along or promote their views. I realize that your party of choice fucked them over for years and is still fucking them over today. So why are you mad at Republican voters and their politicians for not doing the same things as your party of choice has been doing for centuries. Lets see, your system of choice whether it be old European or newer European or old Asian or newer Asian or whatever system that grants governments more power than our Constitutional system allows. I'm not your dad but if I was your dad, I would have shown you the door and booted your ass along time ago. Oh and if your mom had a problem, I would have booted her along with you and paid whatever percentage the court determined.  So, how much of Nancy's wealth do you want? We don't care about Nancy's wealth or liberal wealth for that matter. Feel free to help yourself and feel free to burn their homes to the ground and feel free to rape and pillage and feel free to cut off their heads too. We won't tolerate it and we will slaughter those who fuck up and venture beyond boarders and eventually exterminate them all once they're finished.

I have never heard of anyone moving because an area has the opposite party controlling it.  

Blue folks do not believe in Marxism either.  Nobody does.  Not even the Chinese members of the Communist Party believe in Marx.  They are working hand in hand with those who own the means of production.  

Nobody is much into your childish obsession with violence.

You have been vaguely helpful in giving me ideas on how to express blue ideas so clearly that even a conservative will understand it, but have become repetitive and shrill lately.  More delusional.

I just did watch an hour of so of news coverage.  A bunch of people in Minneapolis attempted to peacefully protest, when the police without warning drove into the middle of their walk and opened fire with teargas, flash bangs and rubber bullets.  No warning.  The press crew filming it hadn't even enough time to put on gas masks, and was hit by a rubber bullet in spite of their crew staying well out of the way.  Reporting was that the police were not firing to disperse, but to hit people.

Great way to prove that the police is not too militant.

I noted the reporter clearly ID'd his party as press, but did not notify the policemen that they were live on a major network.  No big lettering on their clothing to identify who they were.

But still, no one was hurt.  No escalation of the spiral of violence other than the original police murder, and that was part of an ongoing issue.  The Black Lives Matter movement does periodically have its resurgences, which seem to become greater as each blatantly racist police killing occurs.  The way to stop it is to stop the blatantly racist police killings.  The next time a bad cop is a bad cop, the reaction will be even more extreme.

Again, I am disappointed that you are with the racists.

[Warren Dew]

(05-29-2020, 01:20 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 01:10 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I don't have to guess.  I know why they are Democrat controlled.  Democrats are racist, and can come up with a story that "protects" white Democrats from blacks, while allowing said whites to feel good about it.

Despite their spoken good intentions, the white Democrats who rule cities cannot seem to get a handle on the racism and brutality that is built into police departments. I don't see why reform can't occur; can you?

Yes, I can.  It's because of the racial prejudice of the Democratic electorate.  The same racism that causes Democrats to think the blacks can't succeed without affirmative action also causes them to think they need adversarial police departments to protect themselves against blacks.

Successful reform would have to tear down the whole edifice - affirmative action, the Democratic welfare plantation, all of it - and replace it with true equality of opportunity and a system of rewarding personal responsibility.  For the Democratic politicians, that would be political suicide.  And as you say, most Republican politicians don't understand that cities benefit from more shared infrastructure that requires more government spending, so they can't govern cities effectively for reasons unrelated to racial prejudice.

Quote: No wonder some blacks feel they have to be violent. Nothing has been done after decades and decades of police murders and unjust violence.

Absolutely.  Some people ask why they are rioting and destroying their own neighborhoods.  Certainly there are some agent provocateurs - from other blue cities, by the way - but the reason they can be provoked is that they don't feel empowered by the system.  Stores are seen as part of the system just as much as police stations are, so some are willing to lash out to destroy them.

[Warren Dew]

(05-30-2020, 05:45 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 10:13 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 08:58 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 12:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Unfortunately, the we are in this together slogan isn't going to last much longer. We are seeing your sides leadership in Minneapolis RIGHT NOW and it sucks. Personally, I don't care if your blue folks loot and burn the fucking place to the ground.

If the four cops had been arrested immediately and held pending charges, I doubt any of this would have occurred.  If they had been charged with murder, it would have stopped this cold.

And what would have happened when the Grand Jury returned no bill due to a premature attempt at indictment?

It's hard to see that happening, since the video is quite explicit.

And the video of Garner was less explicit?

Looks like we'll get to see what happens, though. Maybe this prosecutor will do a better job.

[David Horn]

(05-29-2020, 01:08 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 12:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The question is why does this kind of police crime still happen after all the incidents we've seen now on video and such. It really shows how pervasive racism is, especially on your side of the aisle, and among policemen.

It has nothing to do with racism.  It has to do with the deference the criminal justice system gives to police.  Garner's killer got off.  Same happens with police who kill people who are not black.  A few get convicted, but the conviction rate is much lower than for nonpolice.

The racism is on your side of the aisle, for believing that black people are not smart enough to fend for themselves and have to be given affirmative action and welfare, with the implicit Democratic promise to their white suburban base that that will keep black people in their place, with these police forces to enforce that.

We agree on one thing: the police have a free pass, but it's not simple deference. It's based in law, where the burden of proof when police are involved has been raised through a series of court cases (yes, including the SCOTUS) to levels typically unachievable.  If not for body cams and cellphone videos, this would be a wall to high -- period!  We disagree about racism, though.  Slavery was a burden that was nearly impossible to overcome, even after it ended.  Educating black people in the slave states was illegal and a capital offense in some or them.  Follow that with decades of Jim Crow suppression: still little to no education and poor opportunities even in the North.  Finally, give a massive hand-up to white GIs after WW-II, and deny it to blacks who served.  Just how deep does the hole have to be before it becomes our responsibility to fill it?

[David Horn]

(05-29-2020, 06:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 08:58 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 12:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Unfortunately, the we are in this together slogan isn't going to last much longer. We are seeing your sides leadership in Minneapolis RIGHT NOW and it sucks. Personally, I don't care if your blue folks loot and burn the fucking place to the ground.

If the four cops had been arrested immediately and held pending charges, I doubt any of this would have occurred.  If they had been charged with murder, it would have stopped this cold.

I don't have a problem with you and every other liberal here giving up your legal protections and your rights to due process to appease Black Lives Matter and pacify a fellow liberal hate group and grant anyone the power string you up. I'd say the blue fuck nuts have got off pretty easy at this point. As far as I know only one negro has been shot by an Arab for looting so far. I'm sure that racism was involved with that killing too. So, is it your interest to be viewed as a white nigger and treated like a white nigger by an American who doesn't give a shit about skin color. Ain't much difference between the black niggers and the white niggers and the brown niggers and yellow niggers and the red niggers and the coalition of morons of various skin tones looking to make names for themselves among liberal groups today.

We can slide American rules aside for a moment and do some mob rule too at anytime. I mean WTF, what's good for the liberal goose is good for the more conservative gander right. I saw Al Sharpton doing the shit that  he does for a living again here too. As I've told you before, I place more value on a whitetail deer than I place on most people like you and most of the scumbags that your side seems to cater too and attract these days. I sure hope those ghetto slugs of yours don't decide to come into to town and pop off some rounds tonight. I'd sure hate to hate to lay some of them out this evening because that's what's coming next and based on what the governor what saying today the governor seems to understand that that IS what's coming next. I'm going to give you a fucking hint, there is no difference between me and an equal Democrat or an equal person of any race when this SHIT turns/moves  from racism to class over night. You have a problem with race but you have an even bigger problem with class. I could tell early on that you and your group had very limited experience with hard nosed/ old school Gen Xr's that exist in large numbers on the other side who have no qualms with playing rough or being coarse or druthers when it comes to dealing with ghetto slugs.

Wow!  That was quite the rant.  It ignores the issues entirely, but whatever.  I hope it made you feel all warm and fuzzy.  But just for the record: if any non-cop had systematically and continuously done what that cop did to anyone, regardless of race, they would have been arrested immediately.  Why should a cop be granted a special right to kill?

[David Horn]

(05-29-2020, 07:38 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 07:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The more testing they do, the more unknown cases they find, the higher the number of known cases that we are of rise. What's so difficult about understanding that and what is so difficult about accepting that as truthful?

Fewer test while more cases.  The more you test, the more you find.  Thus, there are more undetected cases out there.  Let us accept that Trump is reducing the number of tests to reduce how bad he looks, and as a byproduct he is making smart isolation harder to do.  With isolation being reduced  in red states that are still increasing the caseload under their minimal isolation, the possibility of overloading the health system is really there.

The bottom line is that it is bad and getting worse in the middle of the country.  Can you comprehend that?

Those of us in the exurbs -- especially in places with terrible healthcare infrastructure -- getting COVID-19 started among the general population would overwhelm the system and lead to many avoidable deaths.  I expect to see it in the Fall.

[Bob Butler 54]

Apparently, Latin America did well at defending borders for a while, but the virus eventually got in. Healthcare and the economy are poor. The signs of disaster are there.

CNN has an article.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-31-2020, 06:48 AM)David Horn Wrote: Those of us in the exurbs -- especially in places with terrible healthcare infrastructure -- getting COVID-19 started among the general population would overwhelm the system and lead to many avoidable deaths.  I expect to see it in the Fall.

Nitpick. Possibly sooner.

[David Horn]

(06-01-2020, 05:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-31-2020, 06:48 AM)David Horn Wrote: Those of us in the exurbs -- especially in places with terrible healthcare infrastructure -- getting COVID-19 started among the general population would overwhelm the system and lead to many avoidable deaths.  I expect to see it in the Fall.

Nitpick.  Possibly sooner.

Standing by, sanitizer in hand.

[Eric the Green]

Already on many days Florida and Georgia have more daily new cases of covid than states with similar total number of cases. and Texas many more than that.

The huge riots and demonstrations have hit cities in all 50 states. This will increase covid cases.

[Eric the Green]

(05-31-2020, 02:09 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 01:20 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-29-2020, 01:10 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I don't have to guess.  I know why they are Democrat controlled.  Democrats are racist, and can come up with a story that "protects" white Democrats from blacks, while allowing said whites to feel good about it.

Despite their spoken good intentions, the white Democrats who rule cities cannot seem to get a handle on the racism and brutality that is built into police departments. I don't see why reform can't occur; can you?

Yes, I can.  It's because of the racial prejudice of the Democratic electorate.  The same racism that causes Democrats to think the blacks can't succeed without affirmative action also causes them to think they need adversarial police departments to protect themselves against blacks.

It amazes me that you can still fall back on Reaganomics/free-market ideology to label those who don't agree with it as racists.

But, residual racism probably does exist among white Democrats in suburbs and city outskirts. I can't really deny that. I say, they'd better get with it though, or they will lose support among blacks as they did in 2016. Efforts have been made in some places to train police differently, but there are still too many bad apples. I just don't think this is acceptable behavior by police, and I don't see why white Democrats would not agree, even if they look down on blacks in some ways. They are still entitled to the same rights as other Americans. Police murders are a clear violation.

There is no connection between this possibly-racist condition among Democrats to their support for affirmative action. Opposition to affirmative action is part of the general neo-liberal reaganomics ideology of self-reliance. But I would think those afraid of blacks would also oppose affirmative action.

Quote:Successful reform would have to tear down the whole edifice - affirmative action, the Democratic welfare plantation, all of it - and replace it with true equality of opportunity and a system of rewarding personal responsibility.  For the Democratic politicians, that would be political suicide.

Democrats don't really believe that strongly in this neo-liberal ideological complex. So this is not part of the reform that would happen, nor should it be. Blacks will need more government support to improve their position in society. That includes whites paying more in taxes. That is not racist, as you claim. It is just recognizing the impact of 400 years of slavery and exclusion.

In any case, none of us is immune from the results of capricious and unfair behavior by oligarchs and other bosses, even in non-profit organizations. I myself from my experience have no confidence in the fairness of bosses. Although other ethnic groups are more disadvantaged today, many whites are also fired from jobs for no reason, or given wages too low to live on, or have their jobs taken away by computers, robots and cheap foreign labor. A social program of safety nets is needed for all of us. That is why blaming black poverty on the "Democratic welfare plantation" does not fly at all. Many poor whites are brainwashed to blame blacks as their rivals. Welfare practically doesn't exist anymore anyway, and hasn't for 40 years. And self-reliance is not a viable ideology as long as greedy people take power over others and the strong oppress the weak. Individualism is false; we are all interdependent on each other. "We are all in this together." Human life is not a Darwinian struggle for survival of the fittest. Darwin was not even correct about how Nature evolves, let alone how human society evolves. A just society for all requires junking this ideology for millennia into the future from now on.

One problem is the higher crime rate in the black community, which makes police more fearful and stressful. Police are still not often members of the community they serve, and do not respect or interact with the people there. Also, neo-liberal free-market self-reliance ideology has shut down social work, so the police are the only social workers available, and they are not trained to do this, and so family and social conditions are naturally in poor shape. I admit this higher crime rate may be partly due to black youth culture, in which education and scholarly behavior in school is disdained among some young blacks. It may be that rap hip-hop culture expresses anger and foments violence, but does not encourage respect for study in school. Perhaps it could in the future, as it gets more sophisticated and less angry, but I'm not sure it's happening yet, although it affords some income for lucky artists.

This crime rate is also due to endemic poverty in those communities in a society that no longer affords much upward mobility for anyone of any race or ethnic group. This in turn is due to the same neo-liberal libertarian free-market anti-welfare ideology that you say needs to be applied for successful reform. This trickle-down economics ideology has created the oligarchy over the last 40 years, which has reduced the economic and social mobility among youth of all ethnic groups in the USA and UK to almost zero. The drug war encourages illegal drug traffic, which is often a tempting route to riches in poor communities. More treatment and less law enforcement of the drug problem, and better criminal justice practices, would help lower the crime rate. Conservatives also blame the breakdown in family values and one-parent households, and many also blame welfare for this, although this has always seemed ridiculous to me since welfare provides so little money.

Quote:  And as you say, most Republican politicians don't understand that cities benefit from more shared infrastructure that requires more government spending, so they can't govern cities effectively for reasons unrelated to racial prejudice.

Right, and a major aspect of infrastructure is a more equal education system. Busing does not work because whites don't want to be bused to the ghettos, so what's needed is extra money given to schools in low-income neighborhoods, rather than funding from local property taxes alone. Poor educational opportunity is not going to create equality among the races.

Quote:

Quote: No wonder some blacks feel they have to be violent. Nothing has been done after decades and decades of police murders and unjust violence.

Absolutely.  Some people ask why they are rioting and destroying their own neighborhoods.  Certainly there are some agent provocateurs - from other blue cities, by the way - but the reason they can be provoked is that they don't feel empowered by the system.  Stores are seen as part of the system just as much as police stations are, so some are willing to lash out to destroy them.

Right. I'm glad to see that you get it to some degree. I know you want to hang on to the Reagan legacy, but I don't think it is going to be around much longer. A better mix of ideas will be needed.

[Bob Butler 54]

CNN has reported that The US should have a "couple hundred million" doses of a Covid-19 vaccine by start of 2021, Fauci says

This is quicker than you often hear from other sources, but it seems appropriate to watch the trials and see if you can give it any credibility.

[David Horn]

(06-03-2020, 09:27 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: CNN has reported that The US should have a "couple hundred million" doses of a Covid-19 vaccine by start of 2021, Fauci says

This is quicker than you often hear from other sources, but it seems appropriate to watch the trials and see if you can give it any credibility.

Several companies have elected to mass produce, or prepare to mass produce, unproven vaccines to get ahead of the curve.  Will they be profit driven or humanitarian driven efforts? I'm assuming a little of both.  In any case, let's validate the vaccines first.  Remember: thalidomide.