(11-06-2020, 11:34 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: While this thread is primarily about red against blue, the struggle for control of the Republican Party has begun.  I will say a little about that.

The establishment - elitist - obstructionist - McConnell wing of the party is beginning to distance itself from Trump.  With control of the senate and the Supreme Court, they are in a position to block the Democrats and take the lead by legislating from the bench.

The Trumpets - base - racist - former Tea Party wing is still Trump’s.  It is not clear that he will loose influence with the 2020 defeat.  The Tea Party in the primaries to 2016 showed how they could block the establishment, and I have no reason to believe they will not eat any establishment candidate that goes against Trump.  I applaud them turning against the establishment, abhor their turning to the biggest alligator in the swamp, and note that they were enamored of Palin before they swapped to Trump.  Will they look to someone else?  Was the establishment dumping Trump mistaken?

The third faction is the Lincoln Project - Republicans Against Trump - Vote Vets - Never Trumpers.  They talk some about having burned their bridges, about their never being hired by a Republican candidate or organization again.  Still, they have not gone away.  They are attempting to rebuild a party, without elitist influence, without a Trump racist influence.

For the sake of the red, I hope it is the Never Trumpers that comes out on top, but I suspect that the Trump base has the most to run with, while the establishment is in the position of doing the most harm.

(11-07-2020, 08:06 AM)David Horn Wrote: It's going to be a mess all around I think.  We may finally get three or more parties out of this, though only two can survive the system we have.

(11-08-2020, 07:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Eric, people have overcome all sorts of handicaps. One of our conventional three greatest Presidents was a cripple. That cripple gave America the sort of leadership that, at the time of that cripple's death, allowed the US Army within a short distance of the bunker of an enemy who had mocked the ability of America to wage war because the President needed a wheelchair and braces.  Homer wrote or dictated the Iliad and the Odyssey despite blindness. The great organist Helmut Walcha was blind, and at the end of his life, so was the great conductor Arturo Toscanini. That's before I discuss people transcending poverty, ethnic and religious oppression, mental illness, and addictions.

Can people overcome their 'stars'? If people can overcome something so horrible as heroin, can't they find ways to frustrate the 'stars'?

(11-08-2020, 07:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Can people overcome their 'stars'? If people can overcome something so horrible as heroin, can't they find ways to frustrate the 'stars'?

(11-08-2020, 12:44 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(11-08-2020, 07:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Can people overcome their 'stars'? If people can overcome something so horrible as heroin, can't they find ways to frustrate the 'stars'?

Eric's system is based upon the electability of the candidate rather than effectiveness of the elected in office, no? This could be subject to change as American tastes and perceptions change, I would think. After all, some astrologers, including Eric, have been predicting that these years we are living in will see a great paradigm shift, due to rare, once-in-a-millennium configurations. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

(11-05-2020, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-04-2020, 06:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The theory suggests different moods, different styles of action.  In the unravelling there is a lot of talk, compromise, arguing and stalemate.  In the crisis there is a lot of effort to solve problems, and you let go of those values which cause problems.  In the high, you worship the solutions that worked, suppress the values that caused the problems while building infrastructure.

One angle to look at the situation is that there are too many people fond of the old values so it is impossible to solve the problems.  Biden can change the tone.  Unless he has two houses of Congress backing him up, he can’t solve the problems alone.

A part of the problem is an unwillingness to compromise.  We elected a black president.  This resulted in a racist unwillingness to compromise.  Apart from Obamacare, we have not moved much since.  As things are looking, if the red continue this obstruction, the blue will be unable to get anything through congress, and the veto will prevent them from getting anything through congress.  What results is like it or not a continuation of the unravelling.  The problems don’t get solved.

That does not make a lot of sense.  That seems the way we could be heading.

I read a short piece about historical context earlier today.  One of the commenters made the argument that this is the 1850s.  I've always believed that the 1850s were fully a part of the ACW Crisis period (not a lot of support for that, but it's still my view).  We can't have a sectional war this time., because the sections are all intertwined, but that doesn't eliminate anarchic violence, and I think we may have put ourselves there two days ago. 

My county went Trump 3 to1. I'm not surprised, but still can't understand the attraction.  Most of my neighbors are white, educated and financially comfortable.  They're still all-in for the Orange One.  I understand the resentment faction, with declining opportunities and stressed lives. What's with the others like my neighbors?  Is it all 401k, and screw everything else?

(11-08-2020, 04:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-08-2020, 12:44 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(11-08-2020, 07:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Can people overcome their 'stars'? If people can overcome something so horrible as heroin, can't they find ways to frustrate the 'stars'?

Eric's system is based upon the electability of the candidate rather than effectiveness of the elected in office, no? This could be subject to change as American tastes and perceptions change, I would think. After all, some astrologers, including Eric, have been predicting that these years we are living in will see a great paradigm shift, due to rare, once-in-a-millennium configurations. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My system does change over time. It is based on all the candidates in history and the aspects in their charts. As history continues, the database increases and shifts. Nothing in the stars sets our lives in stone. The horoscope indicates to some degree our character, and character is destiny. I believe character can improve, and that's part of the journey of our unfoldment, in this life, and probably from life to life. Yes, paradigms are slowly shifting-- not as fast as I had hoped when I wrote my first book in 1997 (published the same day as The Fourth Turning), but the rhythms of life and the evolution of humanity and planet Earth go on.

There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in limited philosophies, whether they be scientific or spiritual. I can make predictions based on trends. The predictions based on the system are not perfect, but they show the significance of our connection to the cosmos around us. In this case, the "stars" are the planets, centered on the Earth-- the most significant planet in astrology.

It is great that Kamala Harris has made history. However, that will not be a sufficient basis on which to nominate her for president in 2024, or any time. The horoscope scores, although not set in stone, have a degree of accuracy that should be heeded. And we can see them at work. The scores indicate which candidates will connect the best with the "soul of America," as Joe Biden puts it. Now with his victory, his score improved a little bit, enough to barely top The Donald's. So I predicted his victory. It was always going to be a close call, and the two candidates had scores close to each other before the election as well as afterward. 

Kamala Harris, however, does not connect well. Her campaign showed this. The Democrats will need to pick someone else if they want to keep the White House. Unless they do, things will be even worse than they are now, and we will have missed the chance in this 4T to make change. 

Only Theodore Roosevelt is certain to have thoroughly beaten his score. 6 other major party candidates, although only 1 since 1932, have also won although having a slightly lower score than their opponent. Other factors were at work too in these 7 cases. But no-one has ever won or served as president with a score as low as Kamala's. American tastes and perceptions will not change that fast. Even so fast as since the 2019-2020 primary campaign! So, be ready to support someone like Mitch Landrieu, who if nominated will surely win. Soon-to-be-I-hope Secretary of State Susan Rice is another good alternative, or Terry McAuliffe.

http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

(11-09-2020, 04:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-08-2020, 04:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-08-2020, 12:44 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(11-08-2020, 07:26 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Can people overcome their 'stars'? If people can overcome something so horrible as heroin, can't they find ways to frustrate the 'stars'?

Eric's system is based upon the electability of the candidate rather than effectiveness of the elected in office, no? This could be subject to change as American tastes and perceptions change, I would think. After all, some astrologers, including Eric, have been predicting that these years we are living in will see a great paradigm shift, due to rare, once-in-a-millennium configurations. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

My system does change over time. It is based on all the candidates in history and the aspects in their charts. As history continues, the database increases and shifts. Nothing in the stars sets our lives in stone. The horoscope indicates to some degree our character, and character is destiny. I believe character can improve, and that's part of the journey of our unfoldment, in this life, and probably from life to life. Yes, paradigms are slowly shifting-- not as fast as I had hoped when I wrote my first book in 1997 (published the same day as The Fourth Turning), but the rhythms of life and the evolution of humanity and planet Earth go on.

There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in limited philosophies, whether they be scientific or spiritual. I can make predictions based on trends. The predictions based on the system are not perfect, but they show the significance of our connection to the cosmos around us. In this case, the "stars" are the planets, centered on the Earth-- the most significant planet in astrology.

It is great that Kamala Harris has made history. However, that will not be a sufficient basis on which to nominate her for president in 2024, or any time. The horoscope scores, although not set in stone, have a degree of accuracy that should be heeded. And we can see them at work. The scores indicate which candidates will connect the best with the "soul of America," as Joe Biden puts it. Now with his victory, his score improved a little bit, enough to barely top The Donald's. So I predicted his victory. It was always going to be a close call, and the two candidates had scores close to each other before the election as well as afterward. 

Kamala Harris, however, does not connect well. Her campaign showed this. The Democrats will need to pick someone else if they want to keep the White House. Unless they do, things will be even worse than they are now, and we will have missed the chance in this 4T to make change. 

Only Theodore Roosevelt is certain to have thoroughly beaten his score. 6 other major party candidates, although only 1 since 1932, have also won although having a slightly lower score than their opponent. Other factors were at work too in these 7 cases. But no-one has ever won or served as president with a score as low as Kamala's. American tastes and perceptions will not change that fast. Even so fast as since the 2019-2020 primary campaign! So, be ready to support someone like Mitch Landrieu, who if nominated will surely win. Soon-to-be-I-hope Secretary of State Susan Rice is another good alternative, or Terry McAuliffe.

http://philosopherswheel.com/presidentialelections.html

So, you tweaked Biden's score a bit after he won to go along with your prediction? What's the point of doing that? You're fortunate that the majority of Blue Americans aren't as sharp as the majority of us  these days or the majority of you would be out of business so to speak. It's kind of cool that we are now divided enough to place each other on ignore and no longer care about the outcomes pertaining to each other these days. So, how are you going to get rid of Harris without causing a rift  along racial and gender lines and further  weakening the Democratic party.

(11-09-2020, 02:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We understand/ know what your side represents these days and we don't get caught up in the emotional drama/aspect that's being largely driven by the blue media these days. We are mainly white (although we are less white than we were before Trump was elected) , pretty well educated (we are much better educated and more seasoned than the typical Democratic/Progressive voter these days) and more well rounded than we're given credit for as well.

In short, we don't need your politicians or your third world politics because we are all quite capable of standing on our own two feet and surviving so to speak. Just so you understand what you're really dealing with, the number of individuals like me in the country grew substantially over the last four years and the blues (Democratic side) had to scrap the bottom of the barrel of society for the votes that it needed to win and the situation for most of those who are on the Democratic side ain't going to get better for them than it is for them right now either. What you are going to see is two countries functioning more and more like two countries than anyone has ever seen in this country before now and a realization by those in DC that there is nothing that they are able to do about the growing partisan divide that exists in this country today.

(11-07-2020, 08:52 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Updated scores in my revised horoscope scoring system regarding the earlier post:

But the salesmanship and skill of the candidate (as opposed to the president) matters. That is why I am concerned about a future Kamala Harris nomination (score 4-16, you recall; updated score is 3-17).

candidate scores:

Eisenhower 17-10
Nixon 19-6
Reagan 23-3
Bush41 15-5
Bush43 19-2
Trump 9-4

JFK 13-4
Carter 13-5
Bill Clinton 25-2
Barack Obama 18-3
Joe Biden 16-6

Ford 13-7
Dole 12-18
McCain 13-12
Romney 4-10

Stevenson 5-19
Humphrey 12-5
McGovern 9-11
Mondale 12-12
Dukakis 2-12
Gore 11-10
Kerry 7-16
Hillary Clinton 7-12

Can the Democrats pick 'em, or what? 

(11-09-2020, 02:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-05-2020, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-04-2020, 06:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The theory suggests different moods, different styles of action.  In the unravelling there is a lot of talk, compromise, arguing and stalemate.  In the crisis there is a lot of effort to solve problems, and you let go of those values which cause problems.  In the high, you worship the solutions that worked, suppress the values that caused the problems while building infrastructure.

One angle to look at the situation is that there are too many people fond of the old values so it is impossible to solve the problems.  Biden can change the tone.  Unless he has two houses of Congress backing him up, he can’t solve the problems alone.

A part of the problem is an unwillingness to compromise.  We elected a black president.  This resulted in a racist unwillingness to compromise.  Apart from Obamacare, we have not moved much since.  As things are looking, if the red continue this obstruction, the blue will be unable to get anything through congress, and the veto will prevent them from getting anything through congress.  What results is like it or not a continuation of the unravelling.  The problems don’t get solved.

That does not make a lot of sense.  That seems the way we could be heading.

I read a short piece about historical context earlier today.  One of the commenters made the argument that this is the 1850s.  I've always believed that the 1850s were fully a part of the ACW Crisis period (not a lot of support for that, but it's still my view).  We can't have a sectional war this time., because the sections are all intertwined, but that doesn't eliminate anarchic violence, and I think we may have put ourselves there two days ago. 

My county went Trump 3 to1. I'm not surprised, but still can't understand the attraction.  Most of my neighbors are white, educated and financially comfortable.  They're still all-in for the Orange One.  I understand the resentment faction, with declining opportunities and stressed lives. What's with the others like my neighbors?  Is it all 401k, and screw everything else?

We understand/ know what your side represents these days and we don't get caught up in the emotional drama/aspect that's being largely driven by the blue media these days. We are mainly white (although we are less white than we were before Trump was elected) , pretty well educated (we are much better educated and more seasoned than the typical Democratic/Progressive voter these days) and more well rounded than we're given credit for as well.

Quote:In short, we don't need your politicians or your third world politics because we are all quite capable of standing on our own two feet and surviving so to speak. Just so you understand what you're really dealing with, the number of individuals like me in the country grew substantially over the last four years and the blues (Democratic side) had to scrap the bottom of the barrel of society for the votes that it needed to win and the situation for most of those who are on the Democratic side ain't going to get better for them than it is for them right now either. What you are going to see is two countries functioning more and more like two countries than anyone has ever seen in this country before now and a realization by those in DC that there is nothing that they are able to do about the growing partisan divide that exists in this country today.

(11-09-2020, 02:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-05-2020, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote: My county went Trump 3 to1. I'm not surprised, but still can't understand the attraction.  Most of my neighbors are white, educated and financially comfortable.  They're still all-in for the Orange One.  I understand the resentment faction, with declining opportunities and stressed lives. What's with the others like my neighbors?  Is it all 401k, and screw everything else?

We understand/ know what your side represents these days and we don't get caught up in the emotional drama/aspect that's being largely driven by the blue media these days. We are mainly white (although we are less white than we were before Trump was elected) , pretty well educated (we are much better educated and more seasoned than the typical Democratic/Progressive voter these days) and more well rounded than we're given credit for as well.

In short, we don't need your politicians or your third world politics because we are all quite capable of standing on our own two feet and surviving so to speak. Just so you understand what you're really dealing with, the number of individuals like me in the country grew substantially over the last four years and the blues (Democratic side) had to scrap the bottom of the barrel of society for the votes that it needed to win and the situation for most of those who are on the Democratic side ain't going to get better for them than it is for them right now either. What you are going to see is two countries functioning more and more like two countries than anyone has ever seen in this country before now and a realization by those in DC that there is nothing that they are able to do about the growing partisan divide that exists in this country today.

(11-10-2020, 10:42 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-09-2020, 02:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-05-2020, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote: My county went Trump 3 to1. I'm not surprised, but still can't understand the attraction.  Most of my neighbors are white, educated and financially comfortable.  They're still all-in for the Orange One.  I understand the resentment faction, with declining opportunities and stressed lives. What's with the others like my neighbors?  Is it all 401k, and screw everything else?

We understand/ know what your side represents these days and we don't get caught up in the emotional drama/aspect that's being largely driven by the blue media these days. We are mainly white (although we are less white than we were before Trump was elected) , pretty well educated (we are much better educated and more seasoned than the typical Democratic/Progressive voter these days) and more well rounded than we're given credit for as well.

In short, we don't need your politicians or your third world politics because we are all quite capable of standing on our own two feet and surviving so to speak. Just so you understand what you're really dealing with, the number of individuals like me in the country grew substantially over the last four years and the blues (Democratic side) had to scrap the bottom of the barrel of society for the votes that it needed to win and the situation for most of those who are on the Democratic side ain't going to get better for them than it is for them right now either. What you are going to see is two countries functioning more and more like two countries than anyone has ever seen in this country before now and a realization by those in DC that there is nothing that they are able to do about the growing partisan divide that exists in this country today.

You state well the belief that everyone makes it on his or her own, except it doesn't work that way.  Mostly, you get the benefit of schooling and good health as a communal good, then are lucky enough to parlay that into success.  Well here's a clue: that's the model we all follow, or fall by the wayside.  One bad event in our lives can end that beautiful rise to the top in this dog-eat-dog nation, that wouldn't be that way in a more progressive one ... but carry-on.

(11-11-2020, 08:36 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Is it with relief that one learns that Trump sent his loyalist into sensitive Pentagon positions to release highly classified documents to discredit the Democrats and 'Deep State'?  Better than an attempt to use military force to seize power?

(11-09-2020, 02:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-05-2020, 12:06 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-04-2020, 06:04 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The theory suggests different moods, different styles of action.  In the unravelling there is a lot of talk, compromise, arguing and stalemate.  In the crisis there is a lot of effort to solve problems, and you let go of those values which cause problems.  In the high, you worship the solutions that worked, suppress the values that caused the problems while building infrastructure.

One angle to look at the situation is that there are too many people fond of the old values so it is impossible to solve the problems.  Biden can change the tone.  Unless he has two houses of Congress backing him up, he can’t solve the problems alone.

A part of the problem is an unwillingness to compromise.  We elected a black president.  This resulted in a racist unwillingness to compromise.  Apart from Obamacare, we have not moved much since.  As things are looking, if the red continue this obstruction, the blue will be unable to get anything through congress, and the veto will prevent them from getting anything through congress.  What results is like it or not a continuation of the unravelling.  The problems don’t get solved.

That does not make a lot of sense.  That seems the way we could be heading.

I read a short piece about historical context earlier today.  One of the commenters made the argument that this is the 1850s.  I've always believed that the 1850s were fully a part of the ACW Crisis period (not a lot of support for that, but it's still my view).  We can't have a sectional war this time., because the sections are all intertwined, but that doesn't eliminate anarchic violence, and I think we may have put ourselves there two days ago. 

My county went Trump 3 to1. I'm not surprised, but still can't understand the attraction.  Most of my neighbors are white, educated and financially comfortable.  They're still all-in for the Orange One.  I understand the resentment faction, with declining opportunities and stressed lives. What's with the others like my neighbors?  Is it all 401k, and screw everything else?

We understand/ know what your side represents these days and we don't get caught up in the emotional drama/aspect that's being largely driven by the blue media these days. We are mainly white (although we are less white than we were before Trump was elected) , pretty well educated (we are much better educated and more seasoned than the typical Democratic/Progressive voter these days) and more well rounded than we're given credit for as well.

In short, we don't need your politicians or your third world politics because we are all quite capable of standing on our own two feet and surviving so to speak. Just so you understand what you're really dealing with, the number of individuals like me in the country grew substantially over the last four years and the blues (Democratic side) had to scrap the bottom of the barrel of society for the votes that it needed to win and the situation for most of those who are on the Democratic side ain't going to get better for them than it is for them right now either. What you are going to see is two countries functioning more and more like two countries than anyone has ever seen in this country before now and a realization by those in DC that there is nothing that they are able to do about the growing partisan divide that exists in this country today.