(11-30-2020, 11:04 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 10:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:47 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:39 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:06 PM)Einzige Wrote: Yes, because voting for an eighty year old Irish Catholic and his police informant Vice Presidential nominee will magically cause America to change from being an exploitative capitalist hyperpower.

The Republicans and the Democrats are functionally interchangeable. It was, for example, Bill Clinton who signed the Statist, totalitarian apparatus of Immigration and Customs Enforcement into being, and Obama who paved the way for Trump's camps by being the Deporter-in-Chief.

Show me a country that functions as a country without immigration laws and their enforcement. Obama had a choice and he chose to be as close to an American President as you could be or get away with politically because he understood where we were at as a nation at the time and he understood that he needed the wealth of an entire nation to bank on and borrow against at the time.  The moderates are more or less interchangeable which is why the moderates are more or less on their way out and becoming extinct.

I do not care how other countries function, for I aim at the abolition of all countries and all borders. Thank you though for your acknowledging that Obama was just another conservative bourgeois hack.

He was probably the best Liberal bourgeois hack that America has seen in office to this point. I think Hollywood should have gave him an Oscar to go along with his Noble Peace Prize.

Left-liberalism in the United States- social liberalism or social democracy in Europe - is just a way of defending certain segments of Capital. And Obama wasn't even particularly liberal in American historical and cultural terms. 




You believe that he's far more radical than he let on. I'm telling you that he was as conservative as he was in office. Certainly much more conservative than right-wingers like Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford.

(11-30-2020, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 11:04 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 10:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:47 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:39 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Show me a country that functions as a country without immigration laws and their enforcement. Obama had a choice and he chose to be as close to an American President as you could be or get away with politically because he understood where we were at as a nation at the time and he understood that he needed the wealth of an entire nation to bank on and borrow against at the time.  The moderates are more or less interchangeable which is why the moderates are more or less on their way out and becoming extinct.

I do not care how other countries function, for I aim at the abolition of all countries and all borders. Thank you though for your acknowledging that Obama was just another conservative bourgeois hack.

He was probably the best Liberal bourgeois hack that America has seen in office to this point. I think Hollywood should have gave him an Oscar to go along with his Noble Peace Prize.

Left-liberalism in the United States- social liberalism or social democracy in Europe - is just a way of defending certain segments of Capital. And Obama wasn't even particularly liberal in American historical and cultural terms. 




You believe that he's far more radical than he let on. I'm telling you that he was as conservative as he was in office. Certainly much more conservative than right-wingers like Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford.

American's are all conservatives at the core when it comes to survival and protecting whatever it is that  we directly associate with our way   of life. Obama is no different than any other American  in that regard. He's lived off racism and directly benefited from racism his entire life. His wife is no better than him in that regard. She's just prettier. Trump represented a direct threat to the end of the Liberal/Democratic way of life and represented a change to the way that the government conducts it's business.

(11-30-2020, 11:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 02:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-29-2020, 11:27 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-29-2020, 06:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't know who the younger House leaders are who are at least as progressive and competent at mobilizing action as Pelosi is. Invoking age alone does not describe what is happening, or the skill of the leaders. I don't know a young leader who can run for Pelosi's slot and win a broad mandate to lead the Party or be speaker. AOC will not be elected now, and I don't know if Ro Khanna can do it or is willing. Who else is there? Who will step up? A Gen Xer Democrat is more likely to be a spineless moderate.

McConnell is also a Silent and remains at the Republican helm. So that's no better for them, age wise.

Our government remains at a stalemate, but that is not due to the leadership, but to the voters. They voted for this. It's all on them. Voters today, when they vote for a senator, do not know who they are voting for. This year, they voted for McConnell or for Schumer, and even if the Democrats win two Georgia runoffs, McConnell will still win (though not as handily). 

Only if progressive Democrats win a Senate majority can they make DC and PR a state and thus end the Republican Senate dominance. Only then can they reduce or take down the filibuster and reform the court/add liberals. Until they can do this, thanks to the voters' decision, we are stuck in 1981. Maybe forever. In which case, the USA will not be the world's leader; China will be. The USA may decline or split apart, and there will be no hoped-for second turning. Only continued decline.

You voted for Biden and the return to the status quo. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. I hope the Democrats are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on its watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too.

YOu voted for Trump and McConnell and the status quo. No, REGRESSION. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. Because your vote for national decline makes that inevitable. I hope the Republicans are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on their watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too.. 

I voted for America to remain American for the most part  like 70 some million other Americans. We both got what we wanted in this election, we both got a clueless and relatively worthless/powerless Democrat in office. We all know the Democratic machine won the election for Biden and we all know how little effort that it took for him personally to win the election.

America is a nation of immigrants. You voted against America.

(12-01-2020, 12:09 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 11:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 02:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-29-2020, 11:27 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You voted for Biden and the return to the status quo. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. I hope the Democrats are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on its watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too.

YOu voted for Trump and McConnell and the status quo. No, REGRESSION. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. Because your vote for national decline makes that inevitable. I hope the Republicans are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on their watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too.. 

I voted for America to remain American for the most part  like 70 some million other Americans. We both got what we wanted in this election, we both got a clueless and relatively worthless/powerless Democrat in office. We all know the Democratic machine won the election for Biden and we all know how little effort that it took for him personally to win the election.

America is a nation of immigrants. You voted against America.

America was a nation of immigrants at one time (a little over a century ago). We still are in some ways today but we are mainly a nation of Americans today. America isn't going to survive with an open door policy and a government that doesn't care about how much money it spends/wastes on propping up the world. Hey, if you're lucky, you'll live long enough to see what it's like live off the streets like most of the third world these day. If you're not, you'll die and be born in some shit hole and get to experience what that like. It's what you deserve and I think God will agree with me.

(11-30-2020, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 11:04 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 10:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:47 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(11-30-2020, 08:39 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Show me a country that functions as a country without immigration laws and their enforcement. Obama had a choice and he chose to be as close to an American President as you could be or get away with politically because he understood where we were at as a nation at the time and he understood that he needed the wealth of an entire nation to bank on and borrow against at the time.  The moderates are more or less interchangeable which is why the moderates are more or less on their way out and becoming extinct.

I do not care how other countries function, for I aim at the abolition of all countries and all borders. Thank you though for your acknowledging that Obama was just another conservative bourgeois hack.

He was probably the best Liberal bourgeois hack that America has seen in office to this point. I think Hollywood should have gave him an Oscar to go along with his Noble Peace Prize.

Left-liberalism in the United States- social liberalism or social democracy in Europe - is just a way of defending certain segments of Capital. And Obama wasn't even particularly liberal in American historical and cultural terms. 




You believe that he's far more radical than he let on. I'm telling you that he was as conservative as he was in office. Certainly much more conservative than right-wingers like Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford.

American's are all conservatives at the core when it comes to survival and protecting whatever it is that  we directly associate with our way   of life. Obama is no different than any other American  in that regard. He's lived off racism and directly benefited from racism his entire life. His wife is no better than him in that regard. She's just prettier. Trump represented a direct threat to the end of the Liberal/Democratic way of life and represented a change to the way that the government conducts it's business.

(12-01-2020, 05:53 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Back in Bush 43’s day, there was a remnant of honor in the Republican Party.  Sure, there was a touch of Neo Conservative desire to use the military now that they were the sole superpower, but it ran into proxy war insurgency.  Sure they were trying a war for oil, Neo Colonialism, with the Neo conservatives and Big Oil all over the cabinet.  But there were also some who wanted what was better for the Iraqi people.  Unfortunately, they were poisoned early by the military tendency to xenophobia, but their thinking themselves ‘winning’ if they had a high kill count, before they started fighting for hearts and minds.  If they though in terms of military force and profit from oil, they were in their own perverse ways fighting for a strong America.

But then the first black president was elected, and the racist part of the Republican Party led them to go into full scale obstruction mode.  Obama wasn’t given too much chance to be liberal.  He was lucky to get Obamacare through before the congress locked down.  Trump was still reacting to that instinct.  Everything Obama was to be undone.  It was as if he were out to prove that everything Obama was reprehensible.

Obama also had an agenda to be a good person.  Between Obama and Trump, it became clear that the pigment of one’s skin didn’t say a lot about character.  If Obama dedicated much of his energy to being a good president, a good man, the contrast with Trump may have cemented the difference between the two.

Now they have for the moment another white male president.  The blackmailer In chief is out of office, though he may take a good part of his base with him.  Note how folks like Classic and Xenakis are still lapping up his perspective.  The Republicans may or may not still be Trump’s party, still the party of obstructionism, with domestic spending treated as socialism and un American.  Thus, the working man and minorities are the enemy, much to be trampled on.

I am most curious to see if the Republican obstructionism is still dominant, with the Georgia elections and going into the mid terms.  At some point you would think they would be more concerned with helping America than hurting Democrats.  The racists and elites made their point.  They maximized the division of wealth, and presented skin pigmentation as more important than the people.  

Will they be able to project the old values and win?  Will enough people who switched over in rejection of Trump stick.  Will the old progressive time of tax and spend liberalism make America great again?

(12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote: Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.

(12-01-2020, 06:08 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote: Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.

Obama wasn't LBJ.  In the middle of the unravelling, no one was going to be able to get away with spending to benefit the worker.  We had got out of the habit.  Maybe the crisis will cure it, maybe not.  

Still, common wisdom is to reject violence except as a last resort.  There is a feeling among many people that we have not reached the last resort.  Well, maybe the Boogaloo Bois.  Maybe the Wolverine Watchmen.  Maybe the Marxists.  But most see us as nowhere near the last resort.

(12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote: Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?

(12-01-2020, 06:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote: Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?

From my perspective, the wars that developed from September 11th that destabilized the Middle East were an attempt at a conservative led crisis.  A version of the old values was pushed in using war as a means of profit.  They ran into an insurgent proxy war and failed.  This was a bit early perhaps, but the real crisis is not an attempt to push the old values.  September 11th may have felt like Pearl Harbor for a while. but after years of the American military being burned out the battle eventually got looked at on its own merits.  They were not going to deny Bin Ladin a place to train.  They were not going to reinstitute colonialism.  Failed.

It seems most people on this site don't even view it as a crisis.  A major attempt at changing American values failed, the traditional rejection of violence in a crisis happened, no more massive numbers of boots on the ground, and people just wanted to forget about it.  Instead, it is hard to argue that we didn't revert to unravelling mode.  There were seemingly unending debates between two sets of values and neither triumphed.  

I would count the early years of the crisis alignment of generations as a continuation of the unravelling.  It is only when the trigger event occurs that you get into the heart of the crisis.  That would be the appearance of COVID, and later the Black Lives Matter protests.  It is only when the new administration commits itself to handling the primary conflict of the crisis that the regeneracy is fully taking place.  That looks to happen on February 20th.  After that, the crisis is truly underway.

Now you may interpret the theory differently.  I admit to taking considerable liberties, the better to match the theory with what actually happened.

(12-01-2020, 01:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 06:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote: Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?

From my perspective, the wars that developed from September 11th that destabilized the Middle East were an attempt at a conservative led crisis.  A version of the old values was pushed in using war as a means of profit.  They ran into an insurgent proxy war and failed.  This was a bit early perhaps, but the real crisis is not an attempt to push the old values.  September 11th may have felt like Pearl Harbor for a while. but after years of the American military being burned out the battle eventually got looked at on its own merits.  They were not going to deny Bin Ladin a place to train.  They were not going to reinstitute colonialism.  Failed.

It seems most people on this site don't even view it as a crisis.  A major attempt at changing American values failed, the traditional rejection of violence in a crisis happened, no more massive numbers of boots on the ground, and people just wanted to forget about it.  Instead, it is hard to argue that we didn't revert to unravelling mode.  There were seemingly unending debates between two sets of values and neither triumphed.  

I would count the early years of the crisis alignment of generations as a continuation of the unravelling.  It is only when the trigger event occurs that you get into the heart of the crisis.  That would be the appearance of COVID, and later the Black Lives Matter protests.  It is only when the new administration commits itself to handling the primary conflict of the crisis that the regeneracy is fully taking place.  That looks to happen on February 20th.  After that, the crisis is truly underway.

Now you may interpret the theory differently.  I admit to taking considerable liberties, the better to match the theory with what actually happened.

Covid was just the trigger that marks the beginning and you just elected Hoover/Chamberlain in my opinion. Thank God, we have the freedom to split with the Democrats and place them on ignore and turn a blind eye to the violence and social unrest that occurs in their little blue countries/ strongholds/city states. We'll get to see how many Democratic believers are left after several years of steady decline, hyper inflation and increasing numbers of people with no values who are pretty much free to do whatever they want with little to no concern about the consequences for their actions. We're already seeing it now. We'll see who is on the greedy side and see who the fools are as well.

(12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 06:08 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote: Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.

Obama wasn't LBJ.  In the middle of the unravelling, no one was going to be able to get away with spending to benefit the worker.  We had got out of the habit.  Maybe the crisis will cure it, maybe not.  

Still, common wisdom is to reject violence except as a last resort.  There is a feeling among many people that we have not reached the last resort.  Well, maybe the Boogaloo Bois.  Maybe the Wolverine Watchmen.  Maybe the Marxists.  But most see us as nowhere near the last resort.

Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?

Quote: those elites... lavishly funded mirror-image Marxists to supplant Democrats.

(12-01-2020, 02:10 PM)Einzige Wrote:

Quote: those elites... lavishly funded mirror-image Marxists to supplant Democrats.

Hilarious. Examples of these "lavishly funded"Marxists, please?
.

(12-01-2020, 02:12 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 02:10 PM)Einzige Wrote:

Quote: those elites... lavishly funded mirror-image Marxists to supplant Democrats.

Hilarious. Examples of these "lavishly funded"Marxists, please?
.

Senators Pat Toomey and Ron Johnson seem obvious enough.

(12-01-2020, 01:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Covid was just the trigger that marks the beginning and you just elected Hoover/Chamberlain in my opinion. Thank God, we have the freedom to split with the Democrats and place them on ignore and turn a blind eye to the violence and social unrest that occurs in their little blue countries/ strongholds/city states. We'll get to see how many Democratic believers are left after several years of steady decline, hyper inflation and increasing numbers of people with no values who are pretty much free to do whatever they want with little to no concern about the consequences for their actions. We're already seeing it now. We'll see who is on the greedy side and see who the fools are as well.

(12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote:

(12-01-2020, 05:53 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Back in Bush 43’s day, there was a remnant of honor in the Republican Party.  Sure, there was a touch of Neo Conservative desire to use the military now that they were the sole superpower, but it ran into proxy war insurgency.  Sure they were trying a war for oil, Neo Colonialism, with the Neo conservatives and Big Oil all over the cabinet.  But there were also some who wanted what was better for the Iraqi people.  Unfortunately, they were poisoned early by the military tendency to xenophobia, but their thinking themselves ‘winning’ if they had a high kill count, before they started fighting for hearts and minds.  If they though in terms of military force and profit from oil, they were in their own perverse ways fighting for a strong America.

But then the first black president was elected, and the racist part of the Republican Party led them to go into full scale obstruction mode.  Obama wasn’t given too much chance to be liberal.  He was lucky to get Obamacare through before the congress locked down.  Trump was still reacting to that instinct.  Everything Obama was to be undone.  It was as if he were out to prove that everything Obama was reprehensible.

Obama also had an agenda to be a good person.  Between Obama and Trump, it became clear that the pigment of one’s skin didn’t say a lot about character.  If Obama dedicated much of his energy to being a good president, a good man, the contrast with Trump may have cemented the difference between the two.

Now they have for the moment another white male president.  The blackmailer In chief is out of office, though he may take a good part of his base with him.  Note how folks like Classic and Xenakis are still lapping up his perspective.  The Republicans may or may not still be Trump’s party, still the party of obstructionism, with domestic spending treated as socialism and un American.  Thus, the working man and minorities are the enemy, much to be trampled on.

I am most curious to see if the Republican obstructionism is still dominant, with the Georgia elections and going into the mid terms.  At some point you would think they would be more concerned with helping America than hurting Democrats.  The racists and elites made their point.  They maximized the division of wealth, and presented skin pigmentation as more important than the people.  

Will they be able to project the old values and win?  Will enough people who switched over in rejection of Trump stick.  Will the old progressive time of tax and spend liberalism make America great again?

Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.