(12-18-2020, 11:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-17-2020, 07:45 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-16-2020, 10:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-16-2020, 04:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(12-15-2020, 05:13 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: How much do you want to bet that he's reelected if he runs in 2024?

I thought I answered that already. It depends on who is nominated in 2024.

All this talk about the "historic nature" of Harris as vice-president-elect could end up being very ironic, if that choice turns out to be the death knell of the republic.

Are you going to ignore an election result and nominate someone other than Harris who will most likely be President by then? Biden's people won't be able to hide Biden's condition for long being half the country already knows that he's got dementia. You should be happy, Liberals (the blue personality cult) don't like the idea of a republic and prefer a dictatorship. Ain't that what you want?

No, it's what YOU want, obviously. The end of democracy. And my astrological method of horoscope scores shows that Harris will never be president. Biden does not have dementia, and he is as ambitious as anyone. He will stick around and may even run for re-election. But if Harris is nominated in 2024 instead, then your chance will come again to screw up the country.

Your only idea of freedom is freedom to carry AR-15s around so you can massacre people whenever the hell you want. I could care less if that freedom is taken away from you.

As I've told you before, I have no interest in losing any of my American rights including my right to vote. Harris will be President if Biden is unable to finish out his term. That is what you voted and was willing to accept when you voted for the Biden/Harris ticket right? What is so difficult about accepting that distinct possibility? Biden has dementia. So, it's really just a matter of how long the Democratic political system (news, media, politicians, political spokes people and strategists) and his personal handlers/decision makers are able to hide it from the public altogether and able spin it and weasel their way of not knowing or caring about it and so forth.

(12-18-2020, 07:57 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-17-2020, 02:09 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-17-2020, 01:50 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(12-17-2020, 08:24 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I doubt even Trump want to see an end to democracy.  He just wants to scam his base out of as much cash as possible.  The fraudulent voting thing is just a way of doing that.  You have to keep the tensions high to keep the big bucks rolling in and bribe your enablers to keep it going.  Democracy failing doesn't matter that much to him.  So what if he destroys the country in the process of making a little money?

I'm not so sure of that.  Democracy is the hardest environment for grifting, especially for well placed grifters.  Assume the Donald knows this at the gut level, if no other way.

I'm pretty sure.  It is working.  Folks are sending him a bunch of money.  I'm sure if he could find a way to be president for life he'd try for it, but in the meanwhile he'll take the cash.

On that we agree.  Trump's #1 issue is money, followed by money, money and his family.  That's it.

(12-19-2020, 04:49 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-18-2020, 11:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I've told you before, I have no interest in losing any of my American rights including my right to vote. Harris will be President if Biden is unable to finish out his term. That is what you voted and was willing to accept when you voted for the Biden/Harris ticket right? What is so difficult about accepting that distinct possibility? Biden has dementia. So, it's really just a matter of how long the Democratic political system (news, media, politicians, political spokes people and strategists) and his personal handlers/decision makers are able to hide it from the public altogether and able spin it and weasel their way of not knowing or caring about it and so forth.

Not able to finish a term?  It seems Trump is failing more than than Biden might.  He failed to act on the recent Russian cyber attack.  He failed with a facial attack on democracy, which is more likely a scam to draw money from the base.  He failed to take action on the racist violence and systematic racism.  He seems more focused today on pardoning folks and denying the incoming administration information than running the country.  One theme in the blue press is that he is fighting to keep a job he is no longer interested in doing.

Then again, failing to change the status quo, allowing past injustices to continue, would be a Republican thing.  I’m not sure that ought to include the Russians, or encourage a con man administration, but the reds were all in favor.  A Buchanan or Hoover bad president seems part of the turnings?  You have to demonstrate the old values have failed to get people to accept the new?

I’m seeing Biden as bringing in a competent team that he is sill quite capable of coordinating.  If Reagan could do it, Biden can too.  I would as soon have seen someone younger in charge, but he was capable of uniting the Democrats and getting rid of Trump.  That’s the important thing.

(12-19-2020, 08:53 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Losing your right to vote? What really matters is meaningful choice. North Koreans have a right to vote, but obviously no choice. Theoretically you can vote for someone other than the candidates selected by the Korean Workers' Party (which is a Communist Party), but if you try you will be identified for harassment and worse by the secret police. 

I say this because Donald Trump has sought to invalidate an election so that it shows that he won. That might not be as horrible as how it is done in North Korea. Making a choice of the opposition invalid is also a denial of the meaning of a free election. Leaders simply entrench themselves. You may like that now, but what happens if your values change? What if America gets into a big mess and can't get out of it because the rigid leadership  that has entrenched itself will not allow any adjustment?

It is my assumption that my disdain for President Trump is as strong as the disdain that most Trump voters had for Hillary Clinton and now Joe Biden. That political polarization has gotten that bad is itself a problem. We have gone through all but the last month of the Trump Administration, and such misgivings as I have had of him as a person and on his political style while he campaigned for the Presidency in 2016 have proved valid. If there is any mitigation, it is that his lasting effect as President will be to have installed three Justices of the Supreme Court that some right-wing political cult approved of. Those three can practically ensure that the values of that cult be enshrined for a very long time. Basically, he who has the gold makes the rules.

At the worst, should Joe Biden deteriorate so that he should become barely presentable, then the people around him  -- mostly good people, by the way -- will squeeze him into a strictly ceremonial role. That's how it was done with Reagan.  It is probably best that Reagan's handlers concealed intimate details of his mental decline, if only for reasons of national security.

(12-20-2020, 04:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm sure that he has assembled the best that identity politics has to offer these days.

(12-19-2020, 10:16 AM)Einzige Wrote: The complexity of Capital is a deliberate obscurantism. Issues of race, sex, etc. are produced by this social order to obscure the actual relations of power in society. Nothing more. All you people know to do is to reduce the social question to nebulous value judgments, knowing that this absolves you of the real - physical, necessary - struggle to resolve them. Even a pituitary moron like Classic X'er knows his insinuation of violence against Democrats is patently false. It's all an identity-based LARP. And capitalism prepackages identities for sale.

(12-20-2020, 05:03 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-19-2020, 08:53 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Losing your right to vote? What really matters is meaningful choice. North Koreans have a right to vote, but obviously no choice. Theoretically you can vote for someone other than the candidates selected by the Korean Workers' Party (which is a Communist Party), but if you try you will be identified for harassment and worse by the secret police. 

I say this because Donald Trump has sought to invalidate an election so that it shows that he won. That might not be as horrible as how it is done in North Korea. Making a choice of the opposition invalid is also a denial of the meaning of a free election. Leaders simply entrench themselves. You may like that now, but what happens if your values change? What if America gets into a big mess and can't get out of it because the rigid leadership  that has entrenched itself will not allow any adjustment?

It is my assumption that my disdain for President Trump is as strong as the disdain that most Trump voters had for Hillary Clinton and now Joe Biden. That political polarization has gotten that bad is itself a problem. We have gone through all but the last month of the Trump Administration, and such misgivings as I have had of him as a person and on his political style while he campaigned for the Presidency in 2016 have proved valid. If there is any mitigation, it is that his lasting effect as President will be to have installed three Justices of the Supreme Court that some right-wing political cult approved of. Those three can practically ensure that the values of that cult be enshrined for a very long time. Basically, he who has the gold makes the rules.

At the worst, should Joe Biden deteriorate so that he should become barely presentable, then the people around him  -- mostly good people, by the way -- will squeeze him into a strictly ceremonial role. That's how it was done with Reagan.  It is probably best that Reagan's handlers concealed intimate details of his mental decline, if only for reasons of national security.

Dude, I watched for months as a bunch of Democratic cronies/hacks/partisan judges/courts ignored existing l
aws and proceeded to interpret the intent of an illegal vote.

Quote:What Trump is doing now, ain't nearly as bad as what the Democratic party put the entire country through back then. I've been opposed to the Democratic party ever since then.  Trump isn't going to give Biden and the Washington swamp that Biden now represents the satisfaction of a concession.

Quote:He's going to resign and leaves the keys hanging on the door. In about a month, Trump will be free to do as he pleases because he already has the power to split the country/government right now. The GOP (the 15% that more or less helped Biden win) is more or less dead politically.

Quote:As I mentioned before, oil and water don't mix. I'm one, you're the other and that's the way it's going to be from here on. In my opinion, we are moving towards a natural split along several lines (race, creed, religion, class, philosophy and economics). How many years have I been saying that you're digging your own graves and telling you to start paying more attention to those on your own and what you and them are GUILTY of saying about other people? Do you deserve sympathy, help or mercy at this point?

(12-20-2020, 06:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 04:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm sure that he has assembled the best that identity politics has to offer these days.

"Identity politics."  Interesting phrase.  It seems to be one of those racist key phrases.  It tries to make a positive out of racism.  Traditionally, the best jobs are reserved for white males.  It means your selection pool is very limited.  The result doesn't look like America, but a much smaller part of America which tends to be elitist.

Racism is one of the issues of the crisis, any you seem to be on the wrong side.  A look at the cabinet, and the Republicans are definitely on the wrong side.  The key problems of the crisis tend to be solved rather brutally.  This one, less so.  The arrow of progress - democracy, equality, human rights - seems not to be pointing in your direction these days.  Ignore the arrow and you find yourself heading for ruin.

(12-20-2020, 07:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Identity Politics goes against equality by teaching/promoting inferiority and reliance upon the state. It's backwards and counter productive and impedes progress. The Democratic party is still racist and still uses racism as a political tool today. I'd suggest that you stop using it and playing with it like them before it blows up in your face.

(12-20-2020, 07:59 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 07:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Identity Politics goes against equality by teaching/promoting inferiority and reliance upon the state. It's backwards and counter productive and impedes progress. The Democratic party is still racist and still uses racism as a political tool today. I'd suggest that you stop using it and playing with it like them before it blows up in your face.

It occurs to me that if the early part of the crisis, before the trigger and regeneracy, resembles the unravelling, then the younger generations have seen nothing but the unravelling.  The suggestion that the arrow of progress is decisive is most true of the crisis, and least true of the unraveling.  It this seems prudent to point out which side is which.

The side that tries to suppress the vote by frivolous lawsuits and throw away elections would be autocratic.  The side that tries to run get out the vote campaigns and wins the election just before the federal regeneracy is democratic.

The side that is endorsed by the Neo Nazi and KKK would be racist.  The side which is associated with the NAACP and NOW would be for equality.

The side which tears children from their parents and puts them in concentration camps is against human rights.  The side which respects all peoples rights would favor the arrow.

You can try doublespeak.  You can try to define the wrong end of the arrow as the pointy end.  It just makes you look ridiculous.

I’d suggest you quit the doublespeak before it blows up in your face.

(12-19-2020, 10:16 AM)Einzige Wrote: The complexity of Capital is a deliberate obscurantism. Issues of race, sex, etc. are produced by this social order to obscure the actual relations of power in society

(12-19-2020, 10:16 AM)Einzige Wrote: Even a pituitary moron like Classic X'er knows his insinuation of violence against Democrats is patently false. It's all an identity-based LARP. And capitalism prepackages identities for sale.

(12-20-2020, 10:25 AM)David Horn Wrote: C-Xer and his allies believe -- deeply believe -- that white America is under siege, and being attacked from all sides.  They also believe they are the true Americans, and their opponents are <insert your degrading characterization of choice>. If you believe that, and you also believe your adversaries are anti-American, then it's easy to declare a no-holds-barred standard in opposing them -- and that's where we are.

(12-20-2020, 07:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 06:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 04:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm sure that he has assembled the best that identity politics has to offer these days.

"Identity politics."  Interesting phrase.  It seems to be one of those racist key phrases.  It tries to make a positive out of racism.  Traditionally, the best jobs are reserved for white males.  It means your selection pool is very limited.  The result doesn't look like America, but a much smaller part of America which tends to be elitist.

Racism is one of the issues of the crisis, any you seem to be on the wrong side.  A look at the cabinet, and the Republicans are definitely on the wrong side.  The key problems of the crisis tend to be solved rather brutally.  This one, less so.  The arrow of progress - democracy, equality, human rights - seems not to be pointing in your direction these days.  Ignore the arrow and you find yourself heading for ruin.

Identity Politics goes against equality by teaching/promoting inferiority and reliance upon the state. It's backwards and counter productive and impedes progress. The Democratic party is still racist and still uses racism as a political tool today. I'd suggest that you stop using it and playing with it like them before it blows up in your face.

(12-20-2020, 06:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-19-2020, 10:16 AM)Einzige Wrote: The complexity of Capital is a deliberate obscurantism. Issues of race, sex, etc. are produced by this social order to obscure the actual relations of power in society. Nothing more. All you people know to do is to reduce the social question to nebulous value judgments, knowing that this absolves you of the real - physical, necessary - struggle to resolve them. Even a pituitary moron like Classic X'er knows his insinuation of violence against Democrats is patently false. It's all an identity-based LARP. And capitalism prepackages identities for sale.

True. Identity politics is being used for economic gains by capitalists and retaining power by politicians. I assume that you have an identity of some sort. It's pretty clear that you're not content with being a nobody. I mean, look at the way you've been trying to break in and establish yourself as somebody here. The Democrats have been lucky to be able remain immune from violence so far. Well, luck has a habit of wearing off or running out and the Democrats are no different than anyone else as far as that goes. In short, the Democrats are playing with fire and they're going to get burned/torched eventually.

(12-21-2020, 08:10 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 06:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-19-2020, 10:16 AM)Einzige Wrote: The complexity of Capital is a deliberate obscurantism. Issues of race, sex, etc. are produced by this social order to obscure the actual relations of power in society. Nothing more. All you people know to do is to reduce the social question to nebulous value judgments, knowing that this absolves you of the real - physical, necessary - struggle to resolve them. Even a pituitary moron like Classic X'er knows his insinuation of violence against Democrats is patently false. It's all an identity-based LARP. And capitalism prepackages identities for sale.

True. Identity politics is being used for economic gains by capitalists and retaining power by politicians. I assume that you have an identity of some sort. It's pretty clear that you're not content with being a nobody. I mean, look at the way you've been trying to break in and establish yourself as somebody here. The Democrats have been lucky to be able remain immune from violence so far. Well, luck has a habit of wearing off or running out and the Democrats are no different than anyone else as far as that goes. In short, the Democrats are playing with fire and they're going to get burned/torched eventually.

All capitalist politics are identity politics. Do you think you're any different? No; you are supporting na imagined identity which has been produced outside of you (that of the rugged individualist) as if this identity defines you.

(12-21-2020, 01:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 07:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 06:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 04:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm sure that he has assembled the best that identity politics has to offer these days.

"Identity politics."  Interesting phrase.  It seems to be one of those racist key phrases.  It tries to make a positive out of racism.  Traditionally, the best jobs are reserved for white males.  It means your selection pool is very limited.  The result doesn't look like America, but a much smaller part of America which tends to be elitist.

Racism is one of the issues of the crisis, any you seem to be on the wrong side.  A look at the cabinet, and the Republicans are definitely on the wrong side.  The key problems of the crisis tend to be solved rather brutally.  This one, less so.  The arrow of progress - democracy, equality, human rights - seems not to be pointing in your direction these days.  Ignore the arrow and you find yourself heading for ruin.

Identity Politics goes against equality by teaching/promoting inferiority and reliance upon the state. It's backwards and counter productive and impedes progress. The Democratic party is still racist and still uses racism as a political tool today. I'd suggest that you stop using it and playing with it like them before it blows up in your face.

The most blatant expressions of identity politics are those of racist, reactionary white people who have contempt for anyone not white, straight, Christian, and similarly reactionary. Trump exploited that in the extreme. It worked once. The Democratic Party is much closer to being a Big Tent than is the Greedy Old Profiteers Party.

Enough white people have no use for that garbage that Trump could not get re-elected.

(12-20-2020, 12:15 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 10:25 AM)David Horn Wrote: C-Xer and his allies believe -- deeply believe -- that white America is under siege, and being attacked from all sides.  They also believe they are the true Americans, and their opponents are <insert your degrading characterization of choice>. If you believe that, and you also believe your adversaries are anti-American, then it's easy to declare a no-holds-barred standard in opposing them -- and that's where we are.

What they believe - deeply believe - is in the division of wealth, in small government, that by hurting the working man and wealth going to the elites they remain 'superior' to minorities.  It would take a Hiroshima level event to make the examine the worth of this belief.  The deaths caused by COVID and the Black Lives Matter protests are not allowed to penetrate their thoughts.

And they are being attacked from all sides for these beliefs.  They believe in Identity Politics, that America exists for them alone, and all others are locked out.  For believing that, it is proper that they be attacked from all sides.

For all the good that that recognizing the problem does.

They can try to embrace racism, doublethink, elitism, cutting jobs, benefits, unions, concentration camps, authoritarianism all they like.  They can try to justify it by saying retaining their privileged position justifies hurting the things that got them that position.

Just so long as they recognized that there selfishness and greed is noted, and that no matter how they mischaracterize their opponents, the crisis problems will be countered.

Sure they can lie to themselves.  They can cluck like chickens.  It won't do them any good.

(12-21-2020, 01:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 07:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 06:21 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 04:15 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm sure that he has assembled the best that identity politics has to offer these days.

"Identity politics."  Interesting phrase.  It seems to be one of those racist key phrases.  It tries to make a positive out of racism.  Traditionally, the best jobs are reserved for white males.  It means your selection pool is very limited.  The result doesn't look like America, but a much smaller part of America which tends to be elitist.

Racism is one of the issues of the crisis, any you seem to be on the wrong side.  A look at the cabinet, and the Republicans are definitely on the wrong side.  The key problems of the crisis tend to be solved rather brutally.  This one, less so.  The arrow of progress - democracy, equality, human rights - seems not to be pointing in your direction these days.  Ignore the arrow and you find yourself heading for ruin.

Identity Politics goes against equality by teaching/promoting inferiority and reliance upon the state. It's backwards and counter productive and impedes progress. The Democratic party is still racist and still uses racism as a political tool today. I'd suggest that you stop using it and playing with it like them before it blows up in your face.

The most blatant expressions of identity politics are those of racist, reactionary white people who have contempt for anyone not white, straight, Christian, and similarly reactionary. Trump exploited that in the extreme. It worked once. The Democratic Party is much closer to being a Big Tent than is the Greedy Old Profiteers Party.

Enough white people have no use for that garbage that Trump could not get re-elected.

(12-21-2020, 08:10 PM)Einzige Wrote:

(12-20-2020, 06:45 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(12-19-2020, 10:16 AM)Einzige Wrote: The complexity of Capital is a deliberate obscurantism. Issues of race, sex, etc. are produced by this social order to obscure the actual relations of power in society. Nothing more. All you people know to do is to reduce the social question to nebulous value judgments, knowing that this absolves you of the real - physical, necessary - struggle to resolve them. Even a pituitary moron like Classic X'er knows his insinuation of violence against Democrats is patently false. It's all an identity-based LARP. And capitalism prepackages identities for sale.

True. Identity politics is being used for economic gains by capitalists and retaining power by politicians. I assume that you have an identity of some sort. It's pretty clear that you're not content with being a nobody. I mean, look at the way you've been trying to break in and establish yourself as somebody here. The Democrats have been lucky to be able remain immune from violence so far. Well, luck has a habit of wearing off or running out and the Democrats are no different than anyone else as far as that goes. In short, the Democrats are playing with fire and they're going to get burned/torched eventually.

All capitalist politics are identity politics. Do you think you're any different? No; you are supporting na imagined identity which has been produced outside of you (that of the rugged individualist) as if this identity defines you.