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RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - pbrower2a - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 12:06 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(12-23-2020, 10:23 PM)Einzige Wrote:(12-23-2020, 09:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(12-23-2020, 05:41 PM)Einzige Wrote: I wish Eric were something other than a petit-bourg environmentalist. Ted Kaczynski puts you to shame, lib (and I don't even agree with Teddy K.).
I don't have the full physical or mental capacity to be a terrorist. I guess I'll leave that to you or Classic, if you really feel up to it.
You don't need to be a terrorist. But you should put your money where your mouth is and look into adopting a genuine ecologistic lifestyle. There are schools, like Wild Root School, to help you.
Well, I was one of the first people I knew back in the early 70s to recycle, and I helped in the creation of the first community garden and my school recycling center. I was on the central committee of my local Green Party. I screwed in eco-lights before most people did. Recently, I've made a couple of important transitions toward green energy. And so on. But, just as being a terrorist like Ted K would put me beyond my comfort zone, I feel no need to go to all possible green extremes in my personal life. I don't like farming or growing my own food, for example. But if the right policies are ever adopted after 40 years of neo-liberalism, none of us will have to go back to living like savages. A Green economy with abundance is possible with the right policies and innovation. I will follow my bliss. I will write books and music, and I will donate, exercize and organize.
But the problem, in my life, is not the economy per se. It's people who abuse me. Both my personal and my social/political experience reminds me that humans are still a very primitive species. We mistreat each other badly. Tonight I nurse my wounds. We have emerged from caves only 11,000 years ago, and established an enduring (though flawed) democracy (so far) only 244 years ago, and many people still have yet to see it. Not to mention a true social or socialist democracy, or a green one. And our spiritual knowledge has barely advanced since Buddha and Christ, especially in The West where emperors took over the movement of the founder and created a Church which keeps genuine esoteric knowledge of truth, God and the soul under wraps. And meanwhile our 400-year old science has created its own materialist religion and has been put to the use of greed and war. We have a lot to learn.
People will fit 'greener' lifestyles when the alternatives are absurd or impractical, the latter including overpriced. I see programmed driving as the norm (which is not itself 'green') as a consequence of the higher cost... much higher... than do-it-yourself driving as insurance rates favor programmed (that is, self-driving) cars become the norm. That is practically derivative of Economics 101.
Certain trends favor 'green' practice, including prosperity. The end of the Age of Scarcity implies the end of the appeal of conspicuous consumption, itself one of the most wasteful practices. Think of how richer the world would be if so much less effort were put into making status symbols. Think of how much better life would be if simplicity made flamboyance pitiable and ludicrous. I live in Michigan, which has plenty of Victorian houses as expressions of lasting beauty; in some suburbs, up come the McMansions with their ludicrous designs:
![[Image: mcmansion-chicagogeek-56a02eb65f9b58eba4af4775.jpg]](https://www.investopedia.com/thmb/DAGSzVkpLJcxrwDK5LNDbCDqmgY=/1785x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc():format(webp)/mcmansion-chicagogeek-56a02eb65f9b58eba4af4775.jpg)
Too busy, too many angles, too many nooks and crannies, and surely out of touch with the culture except of people with too much money for their own good.
Even in a cultural setting, consider the sickening display of the pianist Liberace, who put a candelabra upon a piano and raised his hands high above the keyboard to simulate a cat pouncing upon a sparrow. No piano teacher would teach the assaultive strike upon the keyboard; fingers as a rule are best located close to the keyboard, as is normal for less pretentious virtuosos like... Artur Rubinstein, Peter Serkin, Emil Gilels, etc. I can only imagine what acoustic effect a candelabra upon a piano would make; it would be no improvement.
Global warming must be stopped before it causes a great reduction in the food supply due to either the desertification or inundation of some critical farmland. We all know what consequences famine has upon human behavior, destabilizing political orders.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - pbrower2a - 12-24-2020
I don't know if this is a partisan issue, but these pardons are an unmitigated disaster for American armed forces. First of all, military 'contractors' deserve no special breaks on war crimes. Second, this cannot be good for military discipline.
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-baghdad-shootings-iraq-585f413732fa953d0a9a7f4c3cf77ac5
Pardons in killings of Iraqi civilians stir angry response
By ERIC TUCKER and ELLEN KNICKMEYER
2 hours ago
1 of 2
FILE - This combination made from file photo shows Blackwater guards, from left, Dustin Heard, Evan Liberty, Nicholas Slatten and Paul Slough. On Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2020, President Donald Trump pardoned 15 people, including Heard, Liberty, Slatten and Slough, the four former government contractors convicted in a 2007 massacre in Baghdad that left more a dozen Iraqi civilians dead and caused an international uproar over the use of private security guards in a war zone. (AP Photo/File)
WASHINGTON (AP) — The courtroom monitors carried the image of a smiling 9-year-old boy as his father pleaded for the punishment of four U.S. government contractors convicted in shootings that killed that child and more than a dozen other Iraqi civilians.
“What’s the difference,” Mohammad Kinani al-Razzaq asked a Washington judge at an emotional 2015 sentencing hearing, “between these criminals and terrorists?”
The shootings of civilians by Blackwater employees at a crowded Baghdad traffic circle in September 2007 prompted an international outcry, left a reputational black eye on U.S. operations at the height of the Iraq war and put the government on the defensive over its use of private contractors in military zones. The resulting criminal prosecutions spanned years in Washington but came to an abrupt end Tuesday when President Donald Trump pardoned the convicted contractors, an act that human rights activists and some Iraqis decried as a miscarriage of justice.
The news comes at a delicate moment for the Iraqi leadership, which is trying to balance growing calls by some Iraqi factions for a complete U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq with what they see as the need for a more gradual drawdown.
“The infamous Blackwater company killed Iraqi citizens at Nisoor Square. Today we heard they were released upon personal order by President Trump, as if they don’t care for the spilled Iraqi blood,” said Saleh Abed, a Baghdad resident walking in the square.
The United Nations’ Human Rights office said Wednesday that it was “deeply concerned” by the pardons, which it said “contributes to impunity and has the effect of emboldening others to commit such crimes in the future.” The Iraqi Foreign Ministry said the pardons ”did not take into account the seriousness of the crime committed,” and that it would urge the U.S. to reconsider.
Al-Razzaq, the father of the slain boy, told the BBC that the pardon decision “broke my life again.”
Lawyers for the contractors, who had aggressively defended the men for more than a decade, offered a different take.
They have long asserted that the shooting began only after the men were ambushed by gunfire from insurgents and then shot back in defense. They have pointed to problems with the prosecution — the first indictment was dismissed by a judge — and argued that the trial that ended with their convictions was tainted by false testimony and withheld evidence.
“Paul Slough and his colleagues didn’t deserve to spend one minute in prison,” said Brian Heberlig, a lawyer for one of the four pardoned defendants. “I am overwhelmed with emotion at this fantastic news.”
https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-baghdad-shootings-iraq-585f413732fa953d0a9a7f4c3cf77ac5
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Snowflake1996 - 12-24-2020
One of the hallmarks of any successful Fourth Turning Crisis is the transfer of wealth from the old to the young but more importantly from the rich to the poor. The response and result of the Covid19 pandemic has resulted largely in the opposite: the rich have gotten richer while everyone else suffers. Initially at the start of this turning (2008-2019) we at least had income and wealth inequality indicators start to stagnate relative to the Third Turning which was a good sign. And in the few years before the pandemic we began to see inflation-adjusted incomes for the bottom two quartiles of Americans finally rise. It seems as though we have backtracked to 1980s style economic trends. The stock market and upper income earners are booming while everyone else suffers.
I’m genuinely worried we’re gonna come out of this looking far more like the Gilded era of the post-Civil War America rather than anything resembling the post-WWII American climate. Sad state of affairs right now.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Eric the Green - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 12:43 PM)Snowflake1996 Wrote: One of the hallmarks of any successful Fourth Turning Crisis is the transfer of wealth from the old to the young but more importantly from the rich to the poor. The response and result of the Covid19 pandemic has resulted largely in the opposite: the rich have gotten richer while everyone else suffers. Initially at the start of this turning (2008-2019) we at least had income and wealth inequality indicators start to stagnate relative to the Third Turning which was a good sign. And in the few years before the pandemic we began to see inflation-adjusted incomes for the bottom two quartiles of Americans finally rise. It seems as though we have backtracked to 1980s style economic trends. The stock market and upper income earners are booming while everyone else suffers.
I’m genuinely worried we’re gonna come out of this looking far more like the Gilded era of the post-Civil War America rather than anything resembling the post-WWII American climate. Sad state of affairs right now.
It's true. That's why we need to dethrone Reaganomics/neoliberalism from power, and the voters did not fully cooperate, re-electing too many Republicans to the senate. If we could ever dethrone Reaganomics, then measures could pass like stimulus and higher taxes on the wealthy, minimum wage rises, better laws for union organizing, restrictions on speculation, health care for all and other Keynesian measures.
Unless neoliberalism is overthrown, it will indeed create another Gilded Age, and the double rhythm indicates that may be our fate. Neoliberal, trickle-down, self-reliance ideology is too tempting for those who resent giving "free stuff" to the poor and "lazy" and who expect that it will work to give breaks to "job creaters." Classic Xer is the chief example of these folk here.
Eric M
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Eric the Green - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 05:53 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:(12-24-2020, 12:06 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(12-23-2020, 10:23 PM)Einzige Wrote:(12-23-2020, 09:14 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(12-23-2020, 05:41 PM)Einzige Wrote: I wish Eric were something other than a petit-bourg environmentalist. Ted Kaczynski puts you to shame, lib (and I don't even agree with Teddy K.).
I don't have the full physical or mental capacity to be a terrorist. I guess I'll leave that to you or Classic, if you really feel up to it.
You don't need to be a terrorist. But you should put your money where your mouth is and look into adopting a genuine ecologistic lifestyle. There are schools, like Wild Root School, to help you.
Well, I was one of the first people I knew back in the early 70s to recycle, and I helped in the creation of the first community garden and my school recycling center. I was on the central committee of my local Green Party. I screwed in eco-lights before most people did. Recently, I've made a couple of important transitions toward green energy. And so on. But, just as being a terrorist like Ted K would put me beyond my comfort zone, I feel no need to go to all possible green extremes in my personal life. I don't like farming or growing my own food, for example. But if the right policies are ever adopted after 40 years of neo-liberalism, none of us will have to go back to living like savages. A Green economy with abundance is possible with the right policies and innovation. I will follow my bliss. I will write books and music, and I will donate, exercize and organize.
But the problem, in my life, is not the economy per se. It's people who abuse me. Both my personal and my social/political experience reminds me that humans are still a very primitive species. We mistreat each other badly. Tonight I nurse my wounds. We have emerged from caves only 11,000 years ago, and established an enduring (though flawed) democracy (so far) only 244 years ago, and many people still have yet to see it. Not to mention a true social or socialist democracy, or a green one. And our spiritual knowledge has barely advanced since Buddha and Christ, especially in The West where emperors took over the movement of the founder and created a Church which keeps genuine esoteric knowledge of truth, God and the soul under wraps. And meanwhile our 400-year old science has created its own materialist religion and has been put to the use of greed and war. We have a lot to learn.
People will fit 'greener' lifestyles when the alternatives are absurd or impractical, the latter including overpriced. I see programmed driving as the norm (which is not itself 'green') as a consequence of the higher cost... much higher... than do-it-yourself driving as insurance rates favor programmed (that is, self-driving) cars become the norm. That is practically derivative of Economics 101.
Certain trends favor 'green' practice, including prosperity. The end of the Age of Scarcity implies the end of the appeal of conspicuous consumption, itself one of the most wasteful practices. Think of how richer the world would be if so much less effort were put into making status symbols. Think of how much better life would be if simplicity made flamboyance pitiable and ludicrous. I live in Michigan, which has plenty of Victorian houses as expressions of lasting beauty; in some suburbs, up come the McMansions with their ludicrous designs:
Too busy, too many angles, too many nooks and crannies, and surely out of touch with the culture except of people with too much money for their own good.
Even in a cultural setting, consider the sickening display of the pianist Liberace, who put a candelabra upon a piano and raised his hands high above the keyboard to simulate a cat pouncing upon a sparrow. No piano teacher would teach the assaultive strike upon the keyboard; fingers as a rule are best located close to the keyboard, as is normal for less pretentious virtuosos like... Artur Rubinstein, Peter Serkin, Emil Gilels, etc. I can only imagine what acoustic effect a candelabra upon a piano would make; it would be no improvement.
Global warming must be stopped before it causes a great reduction in the food supply due to either the desertification or inundation of some critical farmland. We all know what consequences famine has upon human behavior, destabilizing political orders.
I confess I find that house attractive, if a bit grandiose. I want houses with more angles, nooks and crannies, etc. and I don't like the post-war tract houses made of ticky tacky all the same so much. "out of touch with the culture"? What "culture"? Victorians had that; we have lost it. I dread self-driving cars.
But I agree about conspicuous consumption. Americans don't really know that much about real beauty and real wealth, I think.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - pbrower2a - 12-24-2020
It's not the worst example of a McMansion... the stone front is at least attractive. I live in Michigan, where.. well. we have lots of Victorian houses. Much of this is fantasy, and in some cases it goes so far as turrets. Turrets? As someone might need to be on the lookout for fire-breathing dragons intent on devouring innocent maidens?
I'm guessing that this house has a bloated entryway to impress people who might stop by for a visit, but I would figure that the sorts of people who live there would largely see people of similar means and tastes as guests if not their poorer relatives.
I'm not going to say that one has better uses for the money, like making a large endowment to an alma mater, writing a large check to the medical research facility or a home for orphans, etc. -- or backing a poor relative's dream of a small business. Dream houses are one of the worst investments that one can make because they are unmarketable, and they go out of style fast (as if they were in style for more than one family). People with huge funds are going to spend money in silly ways, and it may be the silly spending that keeps a plutocratic economy fro0m getting the economic meltdown that would put an end to plutocracy.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Classic-Xer - 12-24-2020
(12-22-2020, 01:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We're gonna tax ya, tax ya up the wall! We're gonna make ya pay! Take away yer business to stop climate change! We're gonna take away all yer guns! We're gonna open the borders! Lotsa new Democrats! We're gonna defund the police and let BLM burn down yer suburbs, and then move in! Lots of free stuff for the poor and the lazy! Quasi-socialism here we come!!! And if ya resist, we'll put yers all away and lock ya up!Yep. So, what do we need to see know for all for all of that to occur? A couple more Senate seats? Oh, what's going to happen if the Democrats get them and opt to do nothing with them? Like I said, I wouldn't want to be in the position that you and the others and the Biden era Democrats are in these days.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Einzige - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:Neither Party has any credibility.(12-22-2020, 01:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We're gonna tax ya, tax ya up the wall! We're gonna make ya pay! Take away yer business to stop climate change! We're gonna take away all yer guns! We're gonna open the borders! Lotsa new Democrats! We're gonna defund the police and let BLM burn down yer suburbs, and then move in! Lots of free stuff for the poor and the lazy! Quasi-socialism here we come!!! And if ya resist, we'll put yers all away and lock ya up!Yep. So, what do we need to see know for all for all of that to occur? A couple more Senate seats? Oh, what's going to happen if the Democrats get them and opt to do nothing with them? Like I said, I wouldn't want to be in the position that you and the others and the Biden era Democrats are in these days.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Eric the Green - 12-24-2020
(12-24-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(12-22-2020, 01:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We're gonna tax ya, tax ya up the wall! We're gonna make ya pay! Take away yer business to stop climate change! We're gonna take away all yer guns! We're gonna open the borders! Lotsa new Democrats! We're gonna defund the police and let BLM burn down yer suburbs, and then move in! Lots of free stuff for the poor and the lazy! Quasi-socialism here we come!!! And if ya resist, we'll put yers all away and lock ya up!Yep. So, what do we need to see know for all for all of that to occur? A couple more Senate seats? Oh, what's going to happen if the Democrats get them and opt to do nothing with them? Like I said, I wouldn't want to be in the position that you and the others and the Biden era Democrats are in these days.
Well, you have a point on that one. But it's because of you guys. You guys voted for more gridlock, so just as with Clinton and Obama before him, Biden will probably be rejected because he could not accomplish what he promised, when the voters should reject Republicans for blocking him.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Classic-Xer - 12-25-2020
(12-24-2020, 11:42 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:I voted to break gridlock just like you and the Democrats and a group of pesky GOP's voted to do.(12-24-2020, 06:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(12-22-2020, 01:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We're gonna tax ya, tax ya up the wall! We're gonna make ya pay! Take away yer business to stop climate change! We're gonna take away all yer guns! We're gonna open the borders! Lotsa new Democrats! We're gonna defund the police and let BLM burn down yer suburbs, and then move in! Lots of free stuff for the poor and the lazy! Quasi-socialism here we come!!! And if ya resist, we'll put yers all away and lock ya up!Yep. So, what do we need to see know for all for all of that to occur? A couple more Senate seats? Oh, what's going to happen if the Democrats get them and opt to do nothing with them? Like I said, I wouldn't want to be in the position that you and the others and the Biden era Democrats are in these days.
Well, you have a point on that one. But it's because of you guys. You guys voted for more gridlock, so just as with Clinton and Obama before him, Biden will probably be rejected because he could not accomplish what he promised, when the voters should reject Republicans for blocking him.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - David Horn - 12-26-2020
(12-25-2020, 11:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I voted to break gridlock just like you and the Democrats and a group of pesky GOP's voted to do.
I agree that neither party is warm to the the other's agenda, so opposition is to be expected. As long as we have the divided government model as the ideal rather than the exception it will continue to be this way. On the other hand, the GOP has taken opposition to a whole new level, opposing everything and compromising never. Why the need to push obvious instructional advantages further than necessary is a mystery. They have an innate pro-GOP bias in the Senate, and structural advantage electing Presidents. Isn't that enough?
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Eric the Green - 12-26-2020
(12-26-2020, 12:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:(12-25-2020, 11:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I voted to break gridlock just like you and the Democrats and a group of pesky GOP's voted to do.
I agree that neither party is warm to the the other's agenda, so opposition is to be expected. As long as we have the divided government model as the ideal rather than the exception it will continue to be this way. On the other hand, the GOP has taken opposition to a whole new level, opposing everything and compromising never. Why the need to push obvious instructional advantages further than necessary is a mystery. They have an innate pro-GOP bias in the Senate, and structural advantage electing Presidents. Isn't that enough?
Interesting that Classic claims to be voting against gridlock, when that is ALL that the party he votes for ever does.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Bob Butler 54 - 12-26-2020
(12-26-2020, 01:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(12-26-2020, 12:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:(12-25-2020, 11:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I voted to break gridlock just like you and the Democrats and a group of pesky GOP's voted to do.
I agree that neither party is warm to the the other's agenda, so opposition is to be expected. As long as we have the divided government model as the ideal rather than the exception it will continue to be this way. On the other hand, the GOP has taken opposition to a whole new level, opposing everything and compromising never. Why the need to push obvious instructional advantages further than necessary is a mystery. They have an innate pro-GOP bias in the Senate, and structural advantage electing Presidents. Isn't that enough?
Interesting that Classic claims to be voting against gridlock, when that is ALL that the party he votes for ever does.
A slight exaggeration. They will vote tax cuts for the right, to increase the division of wealth. They usually support a strong military. That Trump went against that trend this time is unusual. But on the whole you are correct. They have been racist enough to oppose anything Obama proposes or to undo anything he tried to do. As most of that was to support the American working man, they have wound up against the American working man. That is part of why I expect a collapse of the old values.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Eric the Green - 12-26-2020
(12-26-2020, 01:20 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:(12-26-2020, 01:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(12-26-2020, 12:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:(12-25-2020, 11:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I voted to break gridlock just like you and the Democrats and a group of pesky GOP's voted to do.
I agree that neither party is warm to the the other's agenda, so opposition is to be expected. As long as we have the divided government model as the ideal rather than the exception it will continue to be this way. On the other hand, the GOP has taken opposition to a whole new level, opposing everything and compromising never. Why the need to push obvious instructional advantages further than necessary is a mystery. They have an innate pro-GOP bias in the Senate, and structural advantage electing Presidents. Isn't that enough?
Interesting that Classic claims to be voting against gridlock, when that is ALL that the party he votes for ever does.
A slight exaggeration. They will vote tax cuts for the right, to increase the division of wealth. They usually support a strong military. That Trump went against that trend this time is unusual. But on the whole you are correct. They have been racist enough to oppose anything Obama proposes or to undo anything he tried to do. As most of that was to support the American working man, they have wound up against the American working man. That is part of why I expect a collapse of the old values.
We could also call gridlock "voting to stop the government from doing things," to keep things stagnant in place. That's what tax cuts accomplish, which rob the government of the means to change things, and just to protect the great wealth that exists. Arguably, though not always, the purpose of the strong military is the same: to protect the interests of the wealthy abroad, and/or to stop communism and other movements that threaten them; to protect the establishment and the status quo. Also, to protect the wealth of the military-industrial complex, and to stop immigration. That's what voting for Republican gridlock means, more generally-speaking.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - pbrower2a - 12-26-2020
Good point. The economic elites want no real change in American economic life. The tycoons want most of Humanity dependent upon them to the extent of accepting abject misery as a blessing instead of a curse. America's executive nomenklatura -- and that is just about what it is -- act increasingly like its old Soviet equivalent as administrators and enforcers. These people claim to stand for Free Enterprise, but even this term can lend itself to Orwellian Newspeak: it is not so much the possibility of people competing with the elites as it is that Enterprise be free to do what it must to squelch competition.
The neoliberal era has been an attempt to restore the Gilded Age, but unlike the Gilded Age it is without elite competition. It is the worst of plutocracy and barracks socialism melding themselves into a nightmare. When its intellectual pretense proves lacking, it turns to the most anti-intellectual pol in American history, Donald Trump, as a savior.
Gridlock thwarts change, and it usually dies as the 3T gives way to the 4T.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Classic-Xer - 12-30-2020
(12-26-2020, 12:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that the business as usual mindset that Biden now represents will be unable to continue and sustain for much longer. As I've said many times, there are a lot of you and a lot of us and returning to business as usual isn't going to please or go over well with either group at this point. If I'm reading the situation correctly, the Republican base is going to hand the Democrats a couple of Senate seats in Georgia and pretty much kill whatever resistance to change that was left within the GOP. One bold move would put the Beltway Republicans/Rhinos and the Democrats in the same boat and open the door for a much more radical/revolutionary group who are more able to match the radical Left tit for tat. As far as electing Presidents, the Democrats have the structural advantage and they have had the structural advantage for quite a while now. Biden's election pretty much proved that once and for all. Biden did what Hilary should have done four years ago. The Democrats deserve to go down hard and if you happen to be reliant upon them that's too bad and it's going to really suck to be you if that's the case.(12-25-2020, 11:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I voted to break gridlock just like you and the Democrats and a group of pesky GOP's voted to do.
I agree that neither party is warm to the the other's agenda, so opposition is to be expected. As long as we have the divided government model as the ideal rather than the exception it will continue to be this way. On the other hand, the GOP has taken opposition to a whole new level, opposing everything and compromising never. Why the need to push obvious instructional advantages further than necessary is a mystery. They have an innate pro-GOP bias in the Senate, and structural advantage electing Presidents. Isn't that enough?
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Classic-Xer - 12-30-2020
(12-26-2020, 10:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Good point. The economic elites want no real change in American economic life. The tycoons want most of Humanity dependent upon them to the extent of accepting abject misery as a blessing instead of a curse. America's executive nomenklatura -- and that is just about what it is -- act increasingly like its old Soviet equivalent as administrators and enforcers. These people claim to stand for Free Enterprise, but even this term can lend itself to Orwellian Newspeak: it is not so much the possibility of people competing with the elites as it is that Enterprise be free to do what it must to squelch competition.You didn't want change either. You wanted things to go back to the way things were before Trump entered office. Do you remember the picture of the cake of a government that you made the mistake of showing me and associating with me and what I want for a government? Well, you are part of the cake and the poor working class fools who voted for Biden are the only ones who are going to be left holding it up as we depart and watch as it collapses. You're in on the take like every other worthless Democratic voter. The gridlock is to strong to die at this point which is why I see the country splitting and going separate ways. America as we know it will no longer exist and you'll need a passport to visit the America that comes out of this 4T. Oh, and if you happen to be stuck in a blue state that's to blue to change, you'll get to experience first what it's like to live in a poor third world country like Venezuela or most of Mexico or a lawless third world state like Somalia.
The neoliberal era has been an attempt to restore the Gilded Age, but unlike the Gilded Age it is without elite competition. It is the worst of plutocracy and barracks socialism melding themselves into a nightmare. When its intellectual pretense proves lacking, it turns to the most anti-intellectual pol in American history, Donald Trump, as a savior.
Gridlock thwarts change, and it usually dies as the 3T gives way to the 4T.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Eric the Green - 12-30-2020
(12-30-2020, 08:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(12-26-2020, 10:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Good point. The economic elites want no real change in American economic life. The tycoons want most of Humanity dependent upon them to the extent of accepting abject misery as a blessing instead of a curse. America's executive nomenklatura -- and that is just about what it is -- act increasingly like its old Soviet equivalent as administrators and enforcers. These people claim to stand for Free Enterprise, but even this term can lend itself to Orwellian Newspeak: it is not so much the possibility of people competing with the elites as it is that Enterprise be free to do what it must to squelch competition.You didn't want change either. You wanted things to go back to the way things were before Trump entered office. Do you remember the picture of the cake of a government that you made the mistake of showing me and associating with me and what I want for a government? Well, you are part of the cake and the poor working class fools who voted for Biden are the only ones who are going to be left holding it up as we depart and watch as it collapses. You're in on the take like every other worthless Democratic voter. The gridlock is to strong to die at this point which is why I see the country splitting and going separate ways. America as we know it will no longer exist and you'll need a passport to visit the America that comes out of this 4T. Oh, and if you happen to be stuck in a blue state that's too blue to change, you'll get to experience first what it's like to live in a poor third world country like Venezuela or most of Mexico or a lawless third world state like Somalia.
The neoliberal era has been an attempt to restore the Gilded Age, but unlike the Gilded Age it is without elite competition. It is the worst of plutocracy and barracks socialism melding themselves into a nightmare. When its intellectual pretense proves lacking, it turns to the most anti-intellectual pol in American history, Donald Trump, as a savior.
Gridlock thwarts change, and it usually dies as the 3T gives way to the 4T.
Ha ha, before Trump entered office? The ultimate reactionary? Don't you know when a reactionary conservative is in power, change is thwarted? When he is removed, that is change. It is the red states that support Trump that are more like third world countries. The blue states are where the money is. That's because smart people move there. Dumb people stay in areas like yours, and do the same old things and think in the same old ways.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Classic-Xer - 12-30-2020
(12-26-2020, 07:05 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:Obama wasn't black. Obama was a one trick pony and a weasel according to my eyes and my knowledge of people. Like I said, the Democratic party is still the party of racism that needs racism to continue/survive these days. So, how many times have you used the term to your advantage over the last year? Could Biden have won without a strong belief in racism or using racism to his advantage politically? It's funny, identity politics is the antithesis of equality yet you're all on board with it politically whether you like or not these days. Personally, I don't really care which identity group ends up screwing you/suing you out of house and home or which groups vote to eliminate you or which one ends up with the right to kill you legally. You see, it will no longer be viewed as our concern at that point.(12-26-2020, 01:20 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:(12-26-2020, 01:09 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(12-26-2020, 12:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:(12-25-2020, 11:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I voted to break gridlock just like you and the Democrats and a group of pesky GOP's voted to do.
I agree that neither party is warm to the the other's agenda, so opposition is to be expected. As long as we have the divided government model as the ideal rather than the exception it will continue to be this way. On the other hand, the GOP has taken opposition to a whole new level, opposing everything and compromising never. Why the need to push obvious instructional advantages further than necessary is a mystery. They have an innate pro-GOP bias in the Senate, and structural advantage electing Presidents. Isn't that enough?
Interesting that Classic claims to be voting against gridlock, when that is ALL that the party he votes for ever does.
A slight exaggeration. They will vote tax cuts for the right, to increase the division of wealth. They usually support a strong military. That Trump went against that trend this time is unusual. But on the whole you are correct. They have been racist enough to oppose anything Obama proposes or to undo anything he tried to do. As most of that was to support the American working man, they have wound up against the American working man. That is part of why I expect a collapse of the old values.
We could also call gridlock "voting to stop the government from doing things," to keep things stagnant in place. That's what tax cuts accomplish, which rob the government of the means to change things, and just to protect the great wealth that exists. Arguably, though not always, the purpose of the strong military is the same: to protect the interests of the wealthy abroad, and/or to stop communism and other movements that threaten them; to protect the establishment and the status quo. Also, to protect the wealth of the military-industrial complex, and to stop immigration. That's what voting for Republican gridlock means, more generally-speaking.
RE: The Partisan Divide on Issues - Classic-Xer - 12-30-2020
(12-30-2020, 08:10 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:It's pretty clear that you've never seen a real reactionary conservative in power yet. Trump more or less represents the last of the mean old conservative Democrats that you rebelled against and fought with back in the day. The blue states seems to be where the bulk of the action is right now. You keep saying that as I keep showing you where you're wrong about that and telling you what to expect as time goes on and the natural sorting out process that your seeing and experiencing now continues. The redder suburban areas are where the bulk of the real money (hard currency) is at these days. The Blue States (blue cities) are more or less living off a combination of cheap debt and federal programs.(12-30-2020, 08:01 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(12-26-2020, 10:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Good point. The economic elites want no real change in American economic life. The tycoons want most of Humanity dependent upon them to the extent of accepting abject misery as a blessing instead of a curse. America's executive nomenklatura -- and that is just about what it is -- act increasingly like its old Soviet equivalent as administrators and enforcers. These people claim to stand for Free Enterprise, but even this term can lend itself to Orwellian Newspeak: it is not so much the possibility of people competing with the elites as it is that Enterprise be free to do what it must to squelch competition.You didn't want change either. You wanted things to go back to the way things were before Trump entered office. Do you remember the picture of the cake of a government that you made the mistake of showing me and associating with me and what I want for a government? Well, you are part of the cake and the poor working class fools who voted for Biden are the only ones who are going to be left holding it up as we depart and watch as it collapses. You're in on the take like every other worthless Democratic voter. The gridlock is to strong to die at this point which is why I see the country splitting and going separate ways. America as we know it will no longer exist and you'll need a passport to visit the America that comes out of this 4T. Oh, and if you happen to be stuck in a blue state that's too blue to change, you'll get to experience first what it's like to live in a poor third world country like Venezuela or most of Mexico or a lawless third world state like Somalia.
The neoliberal era has been an attempt to restore the Gilded Age, but unlike the Gilded Age it is without elite competition. It is the worst of plutocracy and barracks socialism melding themselves into a nightmare. When its intellectual pretense proves lacking, it turns to the most anti-intellectual pol in American history, Donald Trump, as a savior.
Gridlock thwarts change, and it usually dies as the 3T gives way to the 4T.
Ha ha, before Trump entered office? The ultimate reactionary? Don't you know when a reactionary conservative is in power, change is thwarted? When he is removed, that is change. It is the red states that support Trump that are more like third world countries. The blue states are where the money is. That's because smart people move there. Dumb people stay in areas like yours, and do the same old things and think in the same old ways.