(03-29-2017, 02:12 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As to non-Americans or those who feel they are not Americans.  I hold the view of Theodore Roosevelt.  I have no time for hypenated Americans.

T.R. Wrote:What is true of creed is no less true of nationality. There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all. This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance. But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic. The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else.

(03-30-2017, 09:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: An FBI official claims to have information that suggests collaboration between President Donald Trump's associates and Russian intelligence officials during the 2016 election, CNN reported Wednesday night...

(03-30-2017, 02:35 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(03-30-2017, 09:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: An FBI official claims to have information that suggests collaboration between President Donald Trump's associates and Russian intelligence officials during the 2016 election, CNN reported Wednesday night...

After the Republicans did full court press on Hillary's e-mails, the Democrats are going to think pushing links to Russia is fair turnabout.  I think the country would do better not pushing scandal, and if possible avoiding behaviors that give the slightest opportunity for the other side to turn into a scandal.  Perhaps I should engage in a profound round of wishful thinking that this sort of thing will go away?

After all, wishful thinking is such a fine tool.

(08-23-2016, 08:44 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: The polls say otherwise but we cannot know what sorts of chicanery and intrigue may arise out of nowhere, when the Kremlin is directly interfering in a US election.

Thus far the interference has not risen to the level where the actual voting process is impaired, or, where a mass disinformation op throws a monkey wrench into the works very late in the campaign season.

I must wonder - if there were obvious major interference in the election, and, against all odds, it ended up installing Trump, how would the FBI, CIA and Military react?

My guess is there would be an armed struggle for power between the illegitimate Executive Branch and its "children" in those departments.

Into the chaos - Russia / the SCO may then try to do a sneak attack while we are caught up in a Civil War (but not one of the "Red" vs "Blue" variety - it would be one within the Executive Branch).

Or, Russia / the SCO would back the Trump faction and overtly install a puppet government atop the ashes of what used to be the legitimate US Government.

(03-30-2017, 09:53 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Bob, I'm not going to get into a long debate over what is and is not garbage.  One either agrees with TR or one does not.  I happen to agree with him.

(03-30-2017, 09:53 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: As to regarding heritage.  I'm fine with people eating their tacos, or their sauerkraut, and whatever other nonsense that they want to eat.  I could care less if one celebrates Passover, or Easter or some Hindu holiday.  That is not what is at contention with hyphenated Americans.  What is at contention is where one's allegiance is.  Ether one is aligned with the Republic or one is not.  Anyone who is not 100% aligned with the Republic needs to go.  I don't care if they were born in East Tumbleweed Iowa or Timbuktu. The country is not in the position to afford having fifth columns in it.  That is the nature of 4Ts.

(03-30-2017, 09:53 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: With reguard to morality--I find it impossible to expect one to care for those outside of one's own tribe if one doesn't care for those in one's own tribe.  It is like expecting the man who lives in filth to be capable of cleaning an other's house.  That being said if one wants to discuss who is and who is not drawing dividing lines among the American people on the basis of race, sex, sexuality and etc--one should be looking at the "blue team".  I find it strange that the people who are supposedly fighting racism are obsessed with race.

(03-30-2017, 09:53 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: WRT Jefferson--Yeah he gets a lot of press.  Personally I prefer Adams.  But if one wants to talk about imporant figures I'd put TR up there pretty highly along with Lincoln and Fredrick Douglas.

(03-30-2017, 10:22 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Show me some real fifth columns, and I'd be with you in defending against them.  The amount of emotional and political heat is way out of proportion with the threat.

Quote:If one has a conscience, if one considers it important to erase lines, one has to be aware of the lines.

Quote:Honorable names, all.  I do like some of what TR did, including the Square Deal which was a prototype for FDR's New Deal.  I'm less enthusiastic for how he help shift US imperial expansionism away from pushing the native Americans around to entering the international stage.  Well, that was the times, I suppose.  Coal was driving the navies of the world.  If one was going to be a player one needed coaling stations.  He was a man if his times, but those times are gone.

(03-30-2017, 08:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I have a different reaction. Trump has supported the Europe breakup. And many of us don't like that. And many of us DO advocate, at least in our passionate moments, that the United States break up. Actually, it would be the more-constructive of the two possibilities. It's the USA that is stagnant and stalemated by the reactionary right wing, now ironically called "red." Red states and blue states are not something Europe is saddled with. They don't have red countries and blue countries. They are all progressive compared to us. We are saddled with a group of states and rural counties who believe that God created the world in 6 days, that the most important issue we face is abortion, that climate science is a hoax, that our "liberal and socialist" government destroys character and is trying to create a global dictatorship. We are saddled with a group of states that send people to congress whose only goal is to block anything and everything, even their own president's health plan, and who can't be worked or dealt with.

No, I think that guy should not eat shit and die; we need to pay attention to the fact that what's happening between Brexit and Trump is that the two nations that led the way toward a socially-responsible, democratic, diplomatic-minded alliance won't be there to defend it from the Putins, Dugins and Bannon/Mercers of the world, and is no longer upholding it. One pundit on Charlie Rose made that point last night, and it's well taken. The current right-wing "populist" trend is destructive and dangerous. It takes us away from progress; it's like what happened in the thirties. And if Le Pen wins, all bets are off for a sustainable and prosperous future. The only way this trend makes sense, is if the resistance to it triumphs in the end.

(03-30-2017, 10:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I'm not keen on TR's imperial expansion but that has to do with the logic of violence and geopolitics of the era as well as the geographical situation the US finds itself in (which has not changed).  Bordered on the north by a friendly nation without a military tradition, bordered on the south by a less than friendly nation with no military tradition, and on the east and west by fish.

As such the the US' defense priorities should be focused on the Navy (and more recently the Air Force).  Of course during the time period this required coaling stations.  That need has passed with the rise of nuclear propulsion.

(03-30-2017, 11:58 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-30-2017, 08:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I have a different reaction. Trump has supported the Europe breakup. And many of us don't like that. And many of us DO advocate, at least in our passionate moments, that the United States break up. Actually, it would be the more-constructive of the two possibilities. It's the USA that is stagnant and stalemated by the reactionary right wing, now ironically called "red." Red states and blue states are not something Europe is saddled with. They don't have red countries and blue countries. They are all progressive compared to us. We are saddled with a group of states and rural counties who believe that God created the world in 6 days, that the most important issue we face is abortion, that climate science is a hoax, that our "liberal and socialist" government destroys character and is trying to create a global dictatorship. We are saddled with a group of states that send people to congress whose only goal is to block anything and everything, even their own president's health plan, and who can't be worked or dealt with.

No, I think that guy should not eat shit and die; we need to pay attention to the fact that what's happening between Brexit and Trump is that the two nations that led the way toward a socially-responsible, democratic, diplomatic-minded alliance won't be there to defend it from the Putins, Dugins and Bannon/Mercers of the world, and is no longer upholding it. One pundit on Charlie Rose made that point last night, and it's well taken. The current right-wing "populist" trend is destructive and dangerous. It takes us away from progress; it's like what happened in the thirties. And if Le Pen wins, all bets are off for a sustainable and prosperous future. The only way this trend makes sense, is if the resistance to it triumphs in the end.

1. the Eurozone has has a different problem. It's composed of rich countries in the north and poorer countries near the Mediterranean Sea.  Greek folks are being robbed blind by the EU. Greece has for some reason, but most likely its elites in concert with the EU are the parties involved.  IOW, the EU is the debt collector for assorted Big Banking interests within the EU. That is despicable.  Any entity that is in league with banks is to be reviled. So you are correct, there is no red/blue divide, but rather a set of countries that are creditors [liked Germany] and debtor countries like Greece. Feel free to do an internet search on how Greece is getting robbed blind. So, do you support austerity? I don't Greece, for example should never have joined the EU.

Quote:2. US breakup:  Easy, Druncker is admitting EU interference in the domestic affair of the US.  Like I always say, nobody and nobody should be allowed to interfere in the internal affairs of any nation state. It is for that reason that I despise CIA meddling in ANY OTHER nations' internal affairs.

Quote:3. Btexit: The British people voted for Brexit. That's democracy. The will of the people should never, ever be dismissed. Great Britain is exercising democracy in action by the elected officials in leaving.

Quote:4. Dugan/Putin/Bannon:  OK, have you ever considered that this meme comes from the MIC?. The MIC is always looking for excuses to feather its nest. Here's the deal, Most European nations have a higher GDP/person than the US.;  I ask why should the we pay for Europe's defense? I think that's insane. The US needs to focus like a laser beam on fixing stuff right here.

Quote:5. Here's the other thing. I fear the MIC and their I-spy crap far more than Russia. I also fear ISP's selling my browsing history than Russia.  Folks who sell my internet data are just... plain... evil. Sorry. And, let me say, to  you the defense extremism for defense of internet privacy is no vice and moderation in the pursuit of internet privacy is no virtue.

Wiki Wrote:BLM may refer to:
• Bergbahn Lauterbrunnen-Mürren, a railway line in Switzerland
• Biotic Ligand Model, toxicology tool
• Black lipid membranes
• Black Lives Matter, an activist movement
• Bleed Like Me, a 2005 album by Garbage
• BLM Heliport
• BLM (law firm)
• Bloom syndrome protein
• Blue Lives Matter, a pro-police movement in the United States
• Braunschweigisches Landesmuseum, a history museum in Brunswick, Germany
• Bureau of Land Management, US federal government agency
• Monmouth Executive Airport's IATA code
• Saint Barthélemy's ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 country code

(03-31-2017, 04:44 PM)Kinser79 (to Bob Butler) Wrote: There's one problem with your theory.  They don't organize peaceful protests.  Were it merely that they would merely be annoying.  BLM mostly instigates riots and anti-police crime.  As for the police themselves statistics indicate that they are prejudiced against shooting blacks in proportion to the rate at which that race commits crimes--particularly violent crime.  Remember Blacks are 13% of the population but commit half the murders and robberies.

Quote:I would also indicate again that the main cause of unnatural death amongst blacks is in fact being killed by other non-police black people.  If one wants to save black lives, black people should start by not killing each other.  In the words of RuPaul "If you don't love yourself how the hell you gonna love anyone else?".  Black on black crime is real and a serious issue but since it doesn't fit the hate the white man narrative BLM isn't interested.

Quote: If all you do is watch the Tee-Vee "news" then you're not well informed.  Seriously you've tried to claim that rioters are peacefully protesting.  This is not a lone nut activity--violence is actively encouraged in their circles.  I should know as I was initially drawn to them myself, for pretty obvious reasons.

(03-31-2017, 11:58 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(03-31-2017, 04:44 PM)Kinser79 (to Bob Butler) Wrote: There's one problem with your theory.  They don't organize peaceful protests.  Were it merely that they would merely be annoying.  BLM mostly instigates riots and anti-police crime.  As for the police themselves statistics indicate that they are prejudiced against shooting blacks in proportion to the rate at which that race commits crimes--particularly violent crime.  Remember Blacks are 13% of the population but commit half the murders and robberies.

"Black lives matter"... or we all have a problem. That includes me, someone who could hardly be "whiter". A nasty society in which to live for any large population -- and that includes poor whites, too -- makes life more precarious for us all. Note that I did not say that violent criminals who happen to be black need a "get away from the consequences" card because some of their ancestors were slaves. Pull a gun on a cop and die, especially when the cops have body armor and almost invariably get the second shot with a more lethal aim. One reason for criminal homicides going down is that the cops now survive felonious assaults and those who commit those felonious assaults never make it to jail or the courtroom, let alone the execution chamber.

By the way -- I have a suggestion for solving many of the problems of any oppressed people in America -- more rigorous, effective schooling. If it works for middle-class people of every ethnic group in America, then why can;t it work for...

Yes, parents must turn off the Idiot Screen and the video games.

Quote:

Quote:I would also indicate again that the main cause of unnatural death amongst blacks is in fact being killed by other non-police black people.  If one wants to save black lives, black people should start by not killing each other.  In the words of RuPaul "If you don't love yourself how the hell you gonna love anyone else?".  Black on black crime is real and a serious issue but since it doesn't fit the hate the white man narrative BLM isn't interested.

What if I told you that white people use more drugs, use worse drugs, and get away with them longer?

Quote: OK, whatever one's ethnicity, poverty makes life far harder and personal decisions more difficult. I recall seeing a study in which much murder was over money. Middle-class people burned for $20 simply abandon their losses if they can't get them corrected.  For them, $20 is easy to come by. Poor people were more likely to act violently to being burned. Tellingly, middle-class people asked to draw dollar bills drew them at the right size. Poorer people tended to draw them bigger than they really are.

Quote:<snip> Newspapers</snip>

(04-01-2017, 06:07 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I seldom watch TV news and never buy newspapers.  I get news from the web.  As many of the web sites I visit also do broadcast or hardcopy, I don't think this a big deal.  The significant difference on the web is in picking up links to the fringe extreme sources.  Forums like this one do make available alternate perspectives.

But, you have to be a bit careful.  If you want to review Black Lives Matters' agenda and policies, you visit their web site rather than trust opinions of extreme partisans.  The web is full of a lot of garbage.