+- Generational Theory Forum: The Fourth Turning Forum: A message board discussing generations and the Strauss Howe generational theory (http://generational-theory.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Fourth Turning Forums (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-1.html)
+--- Forum: Current Events (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-34.html)
+---- Forum: General Political Discussion (http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-15.html)
+---- Thread: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years (/thread-19392.html)
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Eric the Green - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 06:44 AM)Adar Wrote: Americans scream that the only possible solution to debt is to raise taxes, but why not cut spending?
ha ha Americans scream that the only possible solution to debt is to cut spending, but why not raise taxes?
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-08-2021
In fact there is no solution to it.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Eric the Green - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 01:46 PM)Einzige Wrote: In fact there is no solution to it.
It's true, it has gone far beyond redemption.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 01:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:46 PM)Einzige Wrote: In fact there is no solution to it.
It's true, it has gone far beyond redemption.
Its cause is the declining rate of profit.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - David Horn - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 11:36 AM)Einzige Wrote: The problem has little to do with debt. The question is why k the debt that high? What is the fundamental reason that debt gets pushed up so high?
Tax too little and/or spend too much. There aren't a lot of other options.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - David Horn - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 01:55 PM)Einzige Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:46 PM)Einzige Wrote: In fact there is no solution to it.
It's true, it has gone far beyond redemption.
Its cause is the declining rate of profit.
Profits are plenty high, but we leave them untaxed and in in private hands -- then we socialize losses that do occur. Of course there is an imbalance.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 02:58 PM)David Horn Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:55 PM)Einzige Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:46 PM)Einzige Wrote: In fact there is no solution to it.
It's true, it has gone far beyond redemption.
Its cause is the declining rate of profit.
Profits are plenty high, but we leave them untaxed and in in private hands -- then we socialize losses that do occur. Of course there is an imbalance.
The aggregate economy - the total capitalist world economy - is far less profitable today than in the 1900s.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Eric the Green - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 03:11 PM)Einzige Wrote:(03-08-2021, 02:58 PM)David Horn Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:55 PM)Einzige Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(03-08-2021, 01:46 PM)Einzige Wrote: In fact there is no solution to it.
It's true, it has gone far beyond redemption.
Its cause is the declining rate of profit.
Profits are plenty high, but we leave them untaxed and in in private hands -- then we socialize losses that do occur. Of course there is an imbalance.
The aggregate economy - the total capitalist world economy - is far less profitable today than in the 1900s.
The amount of debt the USA has accumulated by now simply can't be repaid.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-08-2021
You fail to see the deeper connection between those issues and the method of production more generally.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 05:11 PM)CageyBee Wrote: Is there much difference between the elites who are destroying the US with wars, debt, and tyranny and the Americans who accept the wars, debt, and police state?
To be sure, the Maoist theory of labor aristocracy holds that First World workers are too bought off ny the fruits of imperialism to ever revolt. This cuts against the orthodox Marxist theory that revolution must begin in the areas where capitalism is most developed, but so it goes.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - pbrower2a - 03-08-2021
(03-08-2021, 05:15 PM)Einzige Wrote:(03-08-2021, 05:11 PM)CageyBee Wrote: Is there much difference between the elites who are destroying the US with wars, debt, and tyranny and the Americans who accept the wars, debt, and police state?
To be sure, the Maoist theory of labor aristocracy holds that First World workers are too bought off by the fruits of imperialism to ever revolt. This cuts against the orthodox Marxist theory that revolution must begin in the areas where capitalism is most developed, but so it goes.
If you want real prosperity, you widen the base of skilled labor. These are the people who build the plant and equipment and set up the machinery of production. They erect the infrastructure. Raw labor is too slight in skills to do anything more than to follow instructions of someone who actually has some vision on what to do. Semiskilled workers (the assemblers and the machine-operators) are valuable only when the productive means are already in place. The middle class is too delicate to do work that breaks a sweat.
Society must reward something that it does not intend to lose. Skilled workers get paid well for undergoing tricky apprenticeship programs that aren't for everyone. One can learn to do assembly-line work or to run a simple machine fairly easily. (By the way -- that distinguishes locomotive engineers and heavy-equipment operators from bus drivers, semi-trailer drivers, and cabbies.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - stillretired - 03-09-2021
Americans say that tax cuts are the only reason there is a trade deficit, but maybe regulations make US exports expensive.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - David Horn - 03-10-2021
(03-08-2021, 03:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: The aggregate economy - the total capitalist world economy - is far less profitable today than in the 1900s.
Based on what? Profits today are often hidden, but even the share totally in the open is astronomical. Look at a company like Apple that is valued at over $1Trillion, yet manages to create this with a workforce of roughly 13,000. No Gilded Age 1.0 megalith even comes close.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - David Horn - 03-10-2021
(03-09-2021, 05:54 PM)stillretired Wrote: Americans say that tax cuts are the only reason there is a trade deficit, but maybe regulations make US exports expensive.
The trade deficit is based solely on the very high value of the USD, and willingness of foreign companies to take them as payment. We are slowly repatriating our production, but the reason has little to do with money and everything to do with being extorted by foreign nations -- primarily China.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-10-2021
(03-10-2021, 10:33 AM)David Horn Wrote:(03-08-2021, 03:11 PM)Einzige Wrote: The aggregate economy - the total capitalist world economy - is far less profitable today than in the 1900s.
Based on what? Profits today are often hidden, but even the share totally in the open is astronomical. Look at a company like Apple that is valued at over $1Trillion, yet manages to create this with a workforce of roughly 13,000. No Gilded Age 1.0 megalith even comes close.
Michael Roberts has calculated the U.S. rate of profit since the War and found it to be in a pretty steady decline since the late 90s after peaking in 1963. Even if aggregate profit in raw dollars rises astronomically for the publicly visible monopolist corporations the total profitability of the system as a whole is in massive decline.
![[Image: rate-of-profit.png]](https://thenextrecession.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/rate-of-profit.png)
Esteban Maito's work agrees with this, analyzing global profitability throughout the world. His work suggests a radical drop in profitability in the total world system as an aggregate since the 1800s, a profound global profitability crisis punctuated by apparent gains
![[Image: wrp-2.png]](https://thenextrecession.files.wordpress.com/2020/07/wrp-2.png)
A lot of what is published about profitability is just propaganda to make the capitalist system look healthier than it is.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - David Horn - 03-10-2021
Oddly, the Federal Reserve Bank of Saint Louis disagrees:
![[Image: U.S._Federal_Corporate_Income_Tax_Receip...rofits.png]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/U.S._Federal_Corporate_Income_Tax_Receipts_and_Pre-Tax_Profits.png)
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-10-2021
We aren't looking at corporate profits alone, but the aggregate profitability of all economic activity.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - David Horn - 03-10-2021
(03-10-2021, 03:57 PM)Einzige Wrote: We aren't looking at corporate profits alone, but the aggregate profitability of all economic activity.
You cited "monopolistic corporations", not me.
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Einzige - 03-10-2021
(03-10-2021, 04:49 PM)David Horn Wrote:(03-10-2021, 03:57 PM)Einzige Wrote: We aren't looking at corporate profits alone, but the aggregate profitability of all economic activity.
You cited "monopolistic corporations", not me.
I distinguished them from the total system.
Quote: if aggregate profit in raw dollars rises astronomically for the publicly visible monopolist corporations the total profitability of the system as a whole is in massive decline
RE: CBO expects federal debt to double over next 30 years - Kate1999 - 03-10-2021
Americans say that you shouldn't fight tyranny because nothing matters, but what will you say when you get sent to the concentration camps?
The elites will not stop because why would they? All of the lines have been crossed and no one has said a word.
At no point will the globalists restore the Bill of Rights, end the wars, or reduce the debt.
Tyranny happens slowly and then you suddenly wake up one day to find the country locked down and the borders closed.
Americans are just animals now.
A 50 year old cop might be hesitant about torturing Americans, but a young cop would not. Churches are closed and there are no morals. Why would you stand up for freedom if you never knew what liberty means?
You might have been surprised the first time that you saw a checkpoint or a black helicopter, but now you're used to it.
The possibility of a police state has become a reality. Now the collapse of the USA has become a certainty.
The quiet warnings of tyranny have become large neon signs.
If you had eyes, you could see the police state.
If you had high-level friends in the government then you would know what is going to happen.
This is not a joke.
The ruling class wants you dead.
You don't have decades or years to prepare for the collapse.
Tomorrow will not be like today or yesterday.
Soon months will become weeks and then you will have days, and then you will only have hours and then just minutes.
History always repeats.
Soon the ATM machines and the Internet will be shut off.
Cash will be banned.
Do really think that the stock market won't collapse for 100 years?
Do you honestly believe that the USA will never have starvation, show trials, summary executions, and killing fields?
How long do you think that you have before you're given a mandatory vaccination and a microchip implant?
When will the Gestapo start the door-to-door gun confiscation?
Will you be surprised when property is nationalized, the US flag and national anthem are changed, and the USA is renamed?
Wake up.
Some of the first to die in the gulags will be the most hopeful.