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RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Eric the Green - 03-03-2017
Al Franken scores 9-9. No chance.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Eric the Green - 03-03-2017
(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Russia already started the war, you can either accept the reality or stick your head in the sand and be this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain. They and their Alt-Right puppets are threat to liberal democracy and need to be stopped.
TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Putin is a tyrant and a murderer who wants to extend his control over other peoples.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Ragnarök_62 - 03-03-2017
(03-03-2017, 01:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Putin is a tyrant and a murderer who wants to extend his control over other peoples.
http://listverse.com/2013/05/25/10-dirty-secret-cia-operations/
So what?! CIA black ops mean the US is a murderer and wants to control other peoples as well. Try again. So for Putin... "because CIA".
But hey, it's all good, for the ends justify the means. For all power, all the glory, for the Neoliberals, for the NeoCONS, and injustice for all others.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - bobc - 03-04-2017
(03-03-2017, 01:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Putin is a tyrant and a murderer who wants to extend his control over other peoples.
What if that were true?
They don't have the capability the Soviet Union might have had to conquer the world.
There are many other places in the world without pristine human rights records.
I doubt you are advocating launching nuclear missiles.
Therefore accommodations and clear defense of interests are needed.
As in NATO will be defended by the US, but Ukraine won't be. The situation in Syria will be negotiated. That sort of thing.
They have their interests, the US has its. Some interests are vital and could cause war. Other interests can be negotiated.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Marypoza - 03-04-2017
(03-03-2017, 06:22 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:(03-03-2017, 01:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Putin is a tyrant and a murderer who wants to extend his control over other peoples.
http://listverse.com/2013/05/25/10-dirty-secret-cia-operations/
So what?! CIA black ops mean the US is a murderer and wants to control other peoples as well. Try again. So for Putin... "because CIA".
But hey, it's all good, for the ends justify the means. For all power, all the glory, for the Neoliberals, for the NeoCONS, and injustice for all others.
Here ya go Rags- Tulsi 4 Prez.
https://ivn.us/2017/03/03/tulsi-gabbard-states-rights-pot/
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - pbrower2a - 03-05-2017
(03-03-2017, 06:22 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:(03-03-2017, 01:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Putin is a tyrant and a murderer who wants to extend his control over other peoples.
http://listverse.com/2013/05/25/10-dirty-secret-cia-operations/
So what?! CIA black ops mean the US is a murderer and wants to control other peoples as well. Try again. So for Putin... "because CIA".
But hey, it's all good, for the ends justify the means. For all power, all the glory, for the Neoliberals, for the NeoCONS, and injustice for all others.
Anyone who targets Americans for terrorist attacks can expect that a halfway-competent American leadership will thwart the effort or (in the wake of prior incompetence) exact revenge. Replace "America" and "Americans" with "China" and "Chinese" could expect much the same thing. Had some real-life equivalent of Lex Luthor staged a 9/11 attack on Shanghai and Beijing, then such a person would not be safe even in Langley, Virginia (home of the CIA) from Chinese retribution. We have set an example for any significant power that has an intelligence network capable of homing in on a target and special forces capable of striking anywhere.
On the other side, I have no desire to see a news report of hijacked aircraft smashing into the Kremlin or into any skyscrapers in China.
ISIS, of course, is really, really bad. It is to the Islamic world what Nazism was to Christendom, and we Americans are going to be pulled into the civil war within the Islamic world. If you want to think of what the civil war within the Islamic world will be like, then consider the European and African theater of World War II as the equivalent of a civil war within Christendom. Christendom had to choose between Onward, Christian Soldiers! and the Horst-Wessel-Lied. Onward, Christian Soldiers!is perfectly legal throughout the Christian World. The Horst-Wessel-Lied is outlawed in much of the world.
The generational cycle is real. A bad leader like Dubya or Donald Trump can rush it and make it worse. A reasonably-good leader like Barack Obama might slow and mitigate it some, but he can't stop it. It takes a Lincoln, a Juarez, an FDR, or a Churchill to ride and subjugate the historical equivalent of the wildest bronco.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Ragnarök_62 - 03-05-2017
pbrower2a
Rags Wrote:http://listverse.com/2013/05/25/10-dirty-secret-cia-operations/
So what?! CIA black ops mean the US is a murderer and wants to control other peoples as well. Try again. So for Putin... "because CIA".
But hey, it's all good, for the ends justify the means. For all power, all the glory, for the Neoliberals, for the NeoCONS, and injustice for all others.
PBrower2a Wrote:Anyone who targets Americans for terrorist attacks can expect that a halfway-competent American leadership will thwart the effort or (in the wake of prior incompetence) exact revenge. Replace "America" and "Americans" with "China" and "Chinese" could expect much the same thing. Had some real-life equivalent of Lex Luthor staged a 9/11 attack on Shanghai and Beijing, then such a person would not be safe even in Langley, Virginia (home of the CIA) from Chinese retribution. We have set an example for any significant power that has an intelligence network capable of homing in on a target and special forces capable of striking anywhere.
1. Let's take a walk on the 911 thingie.
a. George Bush Sr. started a military action against Iraq due to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
So far so good. The mission had a goal, "sent Iraq's armed forces from all of Kuwait, "mission accomplished". Saddam retains power in Iraq proper , but is driven from Kuwait, a sovereign nation. Kuwait oil well fires put out. That's the end of that war. Powell doctrine followed.
b. A military base is set up in Saudi Arabia proper. A former Mujahadeen person , known as [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden] Osama Bin Laden. [/url] the mastermind did not like this at all and called for Islamic Jihad against said military bases in the "Islamic Holy Land" / "Saudi Arabia". <- This is a major decision point.
b. Osama Bin Laden was essentially a CIA go between during the Soviet/Afghanistan war. <- Here's the linkage with the CIA with Osama Bin Laden.
c. The problem started when the US decided to build a military base in Saudi Arabia. Osama Bin Laden does not like "Infidels on sacred ground. "
d. So... The origin of 911 was a combination of the Afghan proxy war along with building a military base on sacred ground.
e. That means a complete misread of whatever variant of Islam , Osama Bin Laden had in mind.
f. A traceback of policy errors are 2.
1. Use of Osama Bin Laden against the Soviets in a proxy war.
2. Lack of knowledge of Saudi politics. Don't just install military bases willy nilly.
f. Conclusion: Neocons as a matter of policy will use any excuse to expand the number of military bases. : Neocons as a matter of policy look in every nook and cranny to justify the use of military force. Therefore, I, Rags conclude based on the logic outlined above, blame Neocons for 911.
As for Russia/China. Yes, both will , like the US use assorted resources to capture natural resources/markets/whatever, just like the US does.
The US is the only meddler that uses "humanitarianism" to justify assorted military actions. It makes an awesome cover in nation states that have stuff we want like oil.
Quote:On the other side, I have no desire to see a news report of hijacked aircraft smashing into the Kremlin or into any skyscrapers in China.
I would not either. The way I see it is that Russians as a people make for excellent hosts. I'd assume Russia also has a fear of being invaded for a 3rd time from the west. I think that's why they're not pleased with this NATO expansion thingie.
China: Yes, of course. While I do think China as a nation , cheats on trade agreements, I do not think that's the Chinese peoples' fault. China features an ancient culture [which should mean China's doing something right]. My impression of Chinese folks, who I know personally is they're pretty damned disciplined. They one's I knew from college were pretty damn hard working. Since this is just from the ones I know, I can't say this applies to all of course.
Quote:ISIS, of course, is really, really bad. It is to the Islamic world what Nazism was to Christendom, and we Americans are going to be pulled into the civil war within the Islamic world. If you want to think of what the civil war within the Islamic world will be like, then consider the European and African theater of World War II as the equivalent of a civil war within Christendom. Christendom had to choose between Onward, Christian Soldiers! and the Horst-Wessel-Lied. Onward, Christian Soldiers!is perfectly legal throughout the Christian World. The Horst-Wessel-Lied is outlawed in much of the world.
Uh, why on earth should we choose to get involved in some Islamic kerfuffle? Here is what I think we should do, given the reality of global warming, which is to say, nothing. Most of the "Islamic problem" is in the Middle East, which is due for a severe hammering from global warming. The way I see it, is that Muslims from that part of the world, either get real or get dead. This is a self solving problem where the best option is to do nothing and let nature take its course. I do not want to see any more US blood shed over some religion stuck in the Ag age.
Quote:The generational cycle is real. A bad leader like Dubya or Donald Trump can rush it and make it worse. A reasonably-good leader like Barack Obama might slow and mitigate it some, but he can't stop it. It takes a Lincoln, a Juarez, an FDR, or a Churchill to ride and subjugate the historical equivalent of the wildest bronco.
First wave Nomads, [Jonesers} , I think are better actually. You see there are battles worth a fight, say global warming, while others are just distractions like Mideast
religious nonsense like the "Arab Spring"/2T , which I recall is just utterly unhinged from reality-land. I really think the outside interference during our 2T would have been a great big huge mess.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - pbrower2a - 03-05-2017
(03-05-2017, 05:24 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: pbrower2a (my contributions in blue)
Rags Wrote:http://listverse.com/2013/05/25/10-dirty-secret-cia-operations/
So what?! CIA black ops mean the US is a murderer and wants to control other peoples as well. Try again. So for Putin... "because CIA".
But hey, it's all good, for the ends justify the means. For all power, all the glory, for the Neoliberals, for the NeoCONS, and injustice for all others.
PBrower2a Wrote:Anyone who targets Americans for terrorist attacks can expect that a halfway-competent American leadership will thwart the effort or (in the wake of prior incompetence) exact revenge. Replace "America" and "Americans" with "China" and "Chinese" could expect much the same thing. Had some real-life equivalent of Lex Luthor staged a 9/11 attack on Shanghai and Beijing, then such a person would not be safe even in Langley, Virginia (home of the CIA) from Chinese retribution. We have set an example for any significant power that has an intelligence network capable of homing in on a target and special forces capable of striking anywhere.
1. Let's take a walk on the 911 thingie.
a. George Bush Sr. started a military action against Iraq due to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait.
So far so good. The mission had a goal, "sent Iraq's armed forces from all of Kuwait, "mission accomplished". Saddam retains power in Iraq proper , but is driven from Kuwait, a sovereign nation. Kuwait oil well fires put out. That's the end of that war. Powell doctrine followed.
Saddam Hussein could survive but only as a puppet. The ideal of course would have been that he would have been overthrown in a popular revolution which started -- but he suppressed that, except in Kurdistan. But even with that, his nastiest weapons were removed. (I'm guessing that Mikhail Gorbachev all but insisted on that because he had missiles within range of parts of the Soviet Union, and Gorbachev did not trust him with them. He must have feared revenge from Saddam Hussein).
It was a very bad idea that his 'intelligence' service be caught in a plot against a former president of the United States. Bill Clinton did the right thing by ordering a cruise missile attack on the headquarters of the 'intelligence' service.
Quote:b. A military base is set up in Saudi Arabia proper. A former Mujahadeen person , known as [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden] Osama Bin Laden. [/url]the mastermind did not like this at all and called for Islamic Jihad against said military bases in the "Islamic Holy Land" / "Saudi Arabia". <- This is a major decision point.
Saddam Hussein had invaded Saudi Arabia. Some parts of Saudi Arabia, especially Mecca and parts of Medina, are so holy that non-Muslims are denied entry. The oil fields are not so holy. basically the House of Saud gets what it wants and makes such accommodations as it is willing to make on behalf of national security.
Quote:b. Osama Bin Laden was essentially a CIA go between during the Soviet/Afghanistan war. <- Here's the linkage with the CIA with Osama Bin Laden.
He should have never been trusted.
Quote:c. The problem started when the US decided to build a military base in Saudi Arabia. Osama Bin Laden does not like "Infidels on sacred ground. "
Tough luck to him. He had no political standing in Saudi Arabia. If Saudi Arabia needs defense by non-Muslims, then that is a choice, for now, by the House of Saud. Obviously Saudi Arabia is no democracy, but now the rest of the world must deal with that.
Quote:d. So... The origin of 911 was a combination of the Afghan proxy war along with building a military base on sacred ground.
e. That means a complete misread of whatever variant of Islam , Osama Bin Laden had in mind.
f. A traceback of policy errors are 2.
1. Use of Osama Bin Laden against the Soviets in a proxy war.
2. Lack of knowledge of Saudi politics. Don't just install military bases willy nilly.
f. Conclusion: Neocons as a matter of policy will use any excuse to expand the number of military bases. : Neocons as a matter of policy look in every nook and cranny to justify the use of military force. Therefore, I, Rags conclude based on the logic outlined above, blame Neocons for 911.
Blame is easy. Wisdom that can foresee consequences is scarce, and tragically scarce among those who see themselves and even are recognized as the 'experts'. But even at that I put some blame on Dubya for failing to heed the warning that al-Qaeda was showing interest in aircraft, especially jetliners. Had I been President then, I might have expected (as such is the MO of al-Qaeda to so use heavy equipment from automobiles to boats and construction equipment) that it intended to get jetliners and load them with explosives. I would have interpreted such to have one counter-measure: keep them away from aircraft.
Quote:As for Russia/China. Yes, both will , like the US use assorted resources to capture natural resources/markets/whatever, just like the US does.
The US is the only meddler that uses "humanitarianism" to justify assorted military actions. It makes an awesome cover in nation states that have stuff we want like oil.
Yes, it is still imperialism, whatever the ideological guise.
Quote:Quote:On the other side, I have no desire to see a news report of hijacked aircraft smashing into the Kremlin or into any skyscrapers in China.
I would not either. The way I see it is that Russians as a people make for excellent hosts. I'd assume Russia also has a fear of being invaded for a 3rd time from the west. I think that's why they're not pleased with this NATO expansion thingie.
Deals were made.
Quote:China: Yes, of course. While I do think China as a nation , cheats on trade agreements, I do not think that's the Chinese peoples' fault. China features an ancient culture [which should mean China's doing something right]. My impression of Chinese folks, who I know personally is they're pretty damned disciplined. They one's I knew from college were pretty damn hard working. Since this is just from the ones I know, I can't say this applies to all of course.
Without question. China is not a democracy, so the Chinese people have no say in what their leaders do in economics, military policy, justice, or foreign policy. Your observation of overseas Chinese is practically identical to mine.
I question whether the United States is a democracy now that Donald Trump is President and acts so dictatorial with the acquiescence of political stooges in Congress.
Quote:Quote:
ISIS, of course, is really, really bad. It is to the Islamic world what Nazism was to Christendom, and we Americans are going to be pulled into the civil war within the Islamic world. If you want to think of what the civil war within the Islamic world will be like, then consider the European and African theater of World War II as the equivalent of a civil war within Christendom. Christendom had to choose between Onward, Christian Soldiers! and the Horst-Wessel-Lied. Onward, Christian Soldiers!is perfectly legal throughout the Christian World. The Horst-Wessel-Lied is outlawed in much of the world.
Uh, why on earth should we choose to get involved in some Islamic kerfuffle? Here is what I think we should do, given the reality of global warming, which is to say, nothing. Most of the "Islamic problem" is in the Middle East, which is due for a severe hammering from global warming. The way I see it, is that Muslims from that part of the world, either get real or get dead. This is a self solving problem where the best option is to do nothing and let nature take its course. I do not want to see any more US blood shed over some religion stuck in the Ag age.
We may not have a choice. But I can think of one predominantly-Islamic country that can be inundated into oblivion as the result of global warming: Bangladesh. It is not a terrorist haven. It has tens of millions of peasant farmers who would either have to die or go elsewhere. How many Bangladeshis do you want as immigrants?
Global warming that leads to the inundation of huge territory of productive farmland and to mass death is itself genocide.
Quote:Quote:The generational cycle is real. A bad leader like Dubya or Donald Trump can rush it and make it worse. A reasonably-good leader like Barack Obama might slow and mitigate it some, but he can't stop it. It takes a Lincoln, a Juarez, an FDR, or a Churchill to ride and subjugate the historical equivalent of the wildest bronco.
First wave Nomads, [Jonesers} , I think are better actually. You see there are battles worth a fight, say global warming, while others are just distractions like Mideast
religious nonsense like the "Arab Spring"/2T , which I recall is just utterly unhinged from reality-land. I really think the outside interference during our 2T would have been a great big huge mess.
There seems to be one unalloyed success in the Arab Spring: Tunisia. But that is enough of an improvement. Syria and Libya came close to success...
We have yet to have a President born in the 1950s. We had a President more typical of what follows a Crisis: he could slow historical change but not prevent it. He may be the best sort of Reactive leader, someone cautious and respectful of precedent and protocol, someone who creates no problems. (The worst sort of Reactive is the cynical, alienated leader who uses his power to settle real and imagined scores and creates scores that others must settle with brute force at its harshest. H-I-T-... You know the rest).
I see in Donald Trump the worst sort of Idealist, the exploiter who expects to be seen as a benefactor to those whose lives he makes miserable. Among the Transcendental Generation were those who argued that slavery was the best thing that could ever happen to black people. Among the Missionary Generation were those who believed that destroying the cultures of immigrant communities because such cultures were inferior to the WASP way of life was a wonderful choice that needed even compulsory sterilization as a measure.
I look at Donald Trump, right-wing Boomer politicians, and Boomer executives, and I see people who believe that the way to prosperity is mass poverty of all but elites, monopolization of industry, and crony capitalism that will create some super-prosperity that makes inequality irrelevant except as a necessary price of progress. Progress, sure -- in the sense that a carcinoma can get progressively worse.
I doubt that X executives will get away with as much as Boomer execs could. If the last 1T is any indication we might expect high taxes on high incomes to pay off debt, undo damage, and widen educational opportunity. I also expect a decentralization of the economy because of small-scale X businessmen finding niches that bureaucratic monopolies can't fill because there is no room for a cadre of executives entitled to live like a Soviet-style nomenklatura at the expense of everyone else. In medium-sized businesses of the 1950s and 1960s the typical executive was someone who started on the shop floor and showed loyalty and competence at every level... and had a slightly-bigger house than the typical prole and had a Buick or Chrysler (and certainly not a Mercedes-Benz, Jaguar, or Bentley) and was putting kids through college when in his late 40s. Today the rigid and low glass ceilings prevent people from rising through the corporate ranks. Those low, rigid glass ceilings are wasting talent of multitudes.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Odin - 03-06-2017
(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Russia already started the war, you can either accept the reality or stick your head in the sand and be this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain. They and their Alt-Right puppets are threat to liberal democracy and need to be stopped.
TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Wanting to put pressure on Russia because of their support for Far-Right movements in the West and their increasingly clear connections with the Trump Administration is a "murderous lather"? It's you Alt-Righters who are being ridiculous for saying that anyone pushing a hard line on Russia for the BS they are pulling "wants WW3". If an open, hot war happens it will be RUSSIA'S fault, not ours.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - pbrower2a - 03-06-2017
(03-06-2017, 07:51 AM)Odin Wrote:(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Wanting to put pressure on Russia because of their support for Far-Right movements in the West and their increasingly clear connections with the Trump Administration is a "murderous lather"? It's you Alt-Righters who are being ridiculous for saying that anyone pushing a hard line on Russia for the BS they are pulling "wants WW3". If an open, hot war happens it will be RUSSIA'S fault, not ours.
Donald Trump started appeasing Vladimir Putin before Putin even asked. Donald Trump is a con artist, and it is only a matter of time before Putin sours on him. That's how things go with liars and cheats.
We Americans should be aligning with political leaders who share our democratic heritage. But a President who holds such a heritage in contempt finds a good buddy in Putin. To be sure, Putin is not Hitler. Nobody could ever be that bad again. But there is far worse possible for America than evolution, a 'lack' of (fundamentalist) school prayer, abortion, and same-sex rights -- the sort of regime that could abolish those in return for making an America in which 95% of the people suffer for 2% of the American people.
I want to live again in the sort of America in which I do not see death as simply the end of all my problems. I want to live for something other than an Afterlife or reincarnation.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - David Horn - 03-06-2017
It's worth noting the way the trump organization operated in the past, and how its overhang is still ever with us. Ivanka spearheaded this clearly awful deal with the worst of the planet's sleazebags. Past is prologue.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - pbrower2a - 03-06-2017
(03-06-2017, 11:22 AM)David Horn Wrote: It's worth noting the way the trump organization operated in the past, and how its overhang is still ever with us. Ivanka spearheaded this clearly awful deal with the worst of the planet's sleazebags. Past is prologue.
People connected to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards? No thanks!
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - David Horn - 03-06-2017
(03-06-2017, 01:33 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:(03-06-2017, 11:22 AM)David Horn Wrote: It's worth noting the way the trump organization operated in the past, and how its overhang is still ever with us. Ivanka spearheaded this clearly awful deal with the worst of the planet's sleazebags. Past is prologue.
People connected to the Iranian Revolutionary Guards? No thanks!
I saw an interview with the guy who researched and wrote the article. He stated without any hesitation that this seems to be standard practice with the Trump Organization, and sleazy deals are there for the documenting.
To be continued.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - SomeGuy - 03-06-2017
(03-06-2017, 07:51 AM)Odin Wrote:(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Wanting to put pressure on Russia because of their support for Far-Right movements in the West and their increasingly clear connections with the Trump Administration is a "murderous lather"? It's you Alt-Righters who are being ridiculous for saying that anyone pushing a hard line on Russia for the BS they are pulling "wants WW3". If an open, hot war happens it will be RUSSIA'S fault, not ours.
Hang on, I believe your exact words, in this thread no less, were:
Quote:Russia already started the war, you can either accept the reality or stick your head in the sand and be this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain. They and their Alt-Right puppets are threat to liberal democracy and need to be stopped.
and:
Quote:I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
Emphasis mine.
So, Putin is Hitler, we are already at war, and anybody who disagrees is "this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain" and/or an "Alt-Right puppet". This sounds like rather a bit more than wanting to "put pressure on Russia". It sounds an awful lot like the sort of rhetoric one might find in the runup to WWIII. Which again brings me to ask: for what? Some money to the National Front? A leak of Podesta's emails? The Crimea? Syria? A lack of enthusiasm for Gay Pride parades? What was the casus belli, here, IYO?
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Eric the Green - 03-06-2017
(03-04-2017, 07:12 PM)bobc Wrote:(03-03-2017, 01:33 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Putin is a tyrant and a murderer who wants to extend his control over other peoples.
What if that were true?
They don't have the capability the Soviet Union might have had to conquer the world.
There are many other places in the world without pristine human rights records.
I doubt you are advocating launching nuclear missiles.
Therefore accommodations and clear defense of interests are needed.
As in NATO will be defended by the US, but Ukraine won't be. The situation in Syria will be negotiated. That sort of thing.
They have their interests, the US has its. Some interests are vital and could cause war. Other interests can be negotiated.
I don't disagree with this statement. Right now it looks like Syria will be tough to negotiate. The USA has no hand in it anymore. It will be up to Russia, Turkey and Iran to force Assad to make concessions. He will not, and has not, made any, unless forced. Russia did require him to turn over chemical weapons in 2013, after the US bombing threat.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - pbrower2a - 03-06-2017
Truth be told, Hitler wasn't much of a killer before 1939. He may have had evil intentions toward the Jews, but he could not quite bring himself to kill them until World War II was underway. He did kill political opponents and others, but in smaller numbers for the first five years of his inhuman regime than such killers as Satan Hussein, Franco, Duvalier, Assad, Mengistu, the Khmer Rouge, Lenin, Mao, Castro, Tito, (in the Congo) Leopold II of Belgium, or murderous dictators in southern South America in the late 1970s. He probably had less blood on his hands in his first five years of power than Andrew Jackson had in eight years in his 'Indian removal'. I have yet to mention the Rwandan genocide. He was less lethal in his first five years of power than the potato famine in Ireland. It would take him time to match the Atlantic slave trade for comparable killing. He had his 'euthanasia' program, but even that faced public opposition that compelled him to stop.
Not until World War II began could he murder with seeming impunity, starting with the Polish intelligentsia which served as prologue to the Holocaust. Hitler became a murderer on an industrial scale once he no longer needed to concern himself with the opinions of his international opponents. That began on September 1, 1939 when he started making "Poland" a synonym for Hell.
Yes, Donald Trump is a racial and religious bigot as was Hitler. As bad? President Trump still has domestic opposition. We Americans have an obligation to resist him if we are to call ourselves a good nation.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Kinser79 - 03-08-2017
(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Russia already started the war, you can either accept the reality or stick your head in the sand and be this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain. They and their Alt-Right puppets are threat to liberal democracy and need to be stopped.
TRANSLATION: Liberals want a war with Russia.
Actually there is only one real problem with your retard-English dictionary. Liberals don't want war with Russia. What passes for the Left these days are not liberals, they are Regressive Left Collectivists.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Kinser79 - 03-08-2017
(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Russia already started the war, you can either accept the reality or stick your head in the sand and be this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain. They and their Alt-Right puppets are threat to liberal democracy and need to be stopped.
TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
Putin is not Hitler and neither is, like it or not, Trump. Perhaps one day when you grow up (of which I'm doubting by now will happen) you'll realize that people with different political views than your own are not "Literally Hitler". Only Hitler is literally Hitler.
(03-03-2017, 08:16 AM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 07:14 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote: TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
OK, uh, hmmm. So since you oppose Putin, who do you support?
Al Franken 2020! He's good enough, smart enough, and doggone it, people like him!
I liked Al Franken better when he wasn't in the Senate. But that would be the third time the Dems put up a Jr. Senator with Zero Legislative Accomplishments. Unfortunately he isn't black so the identity politics stick won't work in his favor this time.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - Kinser79 - 03-08-2017
(03-03-2017, 10:10 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:(03-02-2017, 06:59 PM)Odin Wrote:(03-02-2017, 10:33 AM)Marypoza Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Russia already started the war, you can either accept the reality or stick your head in the sand and be this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain. They and their Alt-Right puppets are threat to liberal democracy and need to be stopped.
TRANSLATION: neoLiberals want a war with Russia.
-- there fixed it 4 ya
I'm a progressive who opposes Putin for the same reason the Left opposed Hitler.
So the answer is "BECAUSE HITLER?" What specifically has gotten you in such a murderous lather?
Someone disagreed with him. Typical Regressive Leftist response.
RE: What Democrats and Republicans want - SomeGuy - 03-08-2017
(03-08-2017, 03:10 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:(03-02-2017, 09:50 AM)SomeGuy Wrote:Quote:Russia already started the war, you can either accept the reality or stick your head in the sand and be this saeculum's Neville Chamberlain. They and their Alt-Right puppets are threat to liberal democracy and need to be stopped.
TRANSLATION: Liberals want a war with Russia.
Actually there is only one real problem with your retard-English dictionary. Liberals don't want war with Russia. What passes for the Left these days are not liberals, they are Regressive Left Collectivists.
Yeah, but I've lost interest in fighting that particular battle.
I mean, it's how they self-identify, so who am I to argue?