(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

(04-05-2020, 05:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

Is the Right to Life a human right?

(04-03-2020, 06:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Hmm.  About the time the coronavirus exploded, this thread seems to have died too.  Classic seems to have vanished from the forums.  He is not here to defend the ignoring of science by crying hoax or fake news, the inability to solve problems in the name of low taxes and small government.  Why not?  Save money by firing the people who prepare for pandemics?  With global warming and bridge infrastructure being slow problems that can seem prudent to ignore by elderly leaders, the virus is a much faster acting problem.  It brought things to a head.

In many ways the virus seems designed to wake up a self oriented populace to focus on the country rather than themselves.  The only answer, other than dropping dead, is for big government to throw lots of money at the problem while telling the populace how to respond.  The alternative is to watch grandma drop dead.

Is there anyone ready to speak up now for the Red pattern in it’s extreme?  I am not saying LBJ’s Great Society didn’t take things too far.  We were really into throwing lots of money at big problems in those days.  Even the G.I. generation needed a selfish do nothing break.

But is anyone left who thinks the break’s time isn’t at an end?  What do Classic’s ‘Americans’ become in the face of a real threat?

(04-05-2020, 05:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

Is the Right to Life a human right?

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

(04-05-2020, 09:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 05:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 04:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: War crimes and criminal violations of human rights would both be impeachable. Such qualify as "high crimes". Of course the sort of regime that does such is usually exempt from legal judgment until overthrown in a coup, utter defeat, or a successful revolution. We are not there in either sense.

Is the Right to Life a human right?

Not if you're a liberal these days.

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-03-2020, 06:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Hmm.  About the time the coronavirus exploded, this thread seems to have died too.  Classic seems to have vanished from the forums.  He is not here to defend the ignoring of science by crying hoax or fake news, the inability to solve problems in the name of low taxes and small government.  Why not?  Save money by firing the people who prepare for pandemics?  With global warming and bridge infrastructure being slow problems that can seem prudent to ignore by elderly leaders, the virus is a much faster acting problem.  It brought things to a head.

In many ways the virus seems designed to wake up a self oriented populace to focus on the country rather than themselves.  The only answer, other than dropping dead, is for big government to throw lots of money at the problem while telling the populace how to respond.  The alternative is to watch grandma drop dead.

Is there anyone ready to speak up now for the Red pattern in it’s extreme?  I am not saying LBJ’s Great Society didn’t take things too far.  We were really into throwing lots of money at big problems in those days.  Even the G.I. generation needed a selfish do nothing break.

But is anyone left who thinks the break’s time isn’t at an end?  What do Classic’s ‘Americans’ become in the face of a real threat?

I took a break. As I've mentioned before, you don't have to worry about Classic's America because Classic's America is capable of getting through just about anything these days. As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

(04-06-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

Where did you get that information? CNN? So, what was Obama's pandemic planning doing? Just talking about it or something? So, where are all the ventilators and stockpiles of medical supplies? Let me guess, the UN has them all or some liberal based humanitarian group abroad has them all? So, what is the priority now? Let me guess, funding illegal immigration like before or is it abortion or so called global warning? Do you know why Bernie is getting his ass kicked by a half wit these days? I assume the Democratic base may finally be in the process of pulling its head out of its ass. It's just an assumption.

(04-06-2020, 12:53 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

Where did you get that information? CNN? So, what was Obama's pandemic planning doing? Just talking about it or something? So, where are all the ventilators and stockpiles of medical supplies? Let me guess, the UN has them all or some liberal based humanitarian group abroad has them all? So, what is the priority now? Let me guess, funding illegal immigration like before or is it abortion or so called global warning? Do you know why Bernie is getting his ass kicked by a half wit these days? I assume the Democratic base may finally be in the process of pulling its head out of its ass. It's just an assumption.

Shit man, it's not Obama's fault or Trump's fault.  Blame corporate America for this.  Corporate America is the reason there are few ventilator factories in the US along with pretty much everything else.  It's high time to lower the boom.  Rev up antitrust actions, raise the taxes sky high on the wealthy and corporations.  This is easy.  Just repeal all tax cuts and deregulation enacted after 1980.  And Classic, you know what?  My inner anger is seething. I want to destroy a lot of big biz.  Here's another good idea.  Sanction and shake down all tax shelters. Demand bank  records from them, and start filling up the prisons with CEOS.  If we drain enough money from corporate america, then they won't have enough to lobby with.  This is one way you end run stupid Supreme Court decisions.   Abortion?  I'm a male and that means I must defer to females. It affects females and not males obviously.  Those bloviating  Evangelical pastors who are almost always male need to STFU.

(04-05-2020, 11:14 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Admittedly, the right to life did not make it into Eleanor Roosevelt's and the UN's list of human rights.  It shows up more in novels and debates.  Still, most crimes are also civil rights violations.  You are taking away various things that are prized, with or without association with a right.  So, murder is not a human rights violation?  Whatever.  I don't think it much of a hot partisan question, but at least early on in the coronavirus problem Republicans (at least the Establishment type) valued property more, Democrats valued life more.  I would say the importance of these values goes with what the groups think is important.

We will see how your people from the center of the country think when it is their life that is at risk.

(04-06-2020, 12:29 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 11:00 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: As I recall, the so-called healthcare crisis and the so called global warming crisis took precedence over future pandemic preparations and funding associated with it. Right now, the liberals don't really have much of a leg to stand on these days.

Hmm.  Obama at least funded the pandemic planning team, which Trump laid off and did not replace.  I wouldn't say he was the one legless.

Where did you get that information? CNN? So, what was Obama's pandemic planning doing? Just talking about it or something? So, where are all the ventilators and stockpiles of medical supplies? Let me guess, the UN has them all or some liberal based humanitarian group abroad has them all? So, what is the priority now? Let me guess, funding illegal immigration like before or is it abortion or so called global warning? Do you know why Bernie is getting his ass kicked by a half wit these days? I assume the Democratic base may finally be in the process of pulling its head out of its ass. It's just an assumption.

(04-06-2020, 01:32 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: <snip>
Shit man, it's not Obama's fault or Trump's fault.  Blame corporate America for this.  Corporate America is the reason there are few ventilator factories in the US along with pretty much everything else.  It's high time to lower the boom.  Rev up antitrust actions, raise the taxes sky high on the wealthy and corporations.  This is easy.  Just repeal all tax cuts and deregulation enacted after 1980.  And Classic, you know what?  My inner anger is seething. I want to destroy a lot of big biz.  Here's another good idea.  Sanction and shake down all tax shelters. Demand bank  records from them, and start filling up the prisons with CEOS.  If we drain enough money from corporate america, then they won't have enough to lobby with.  This is one way you end run stupid Supreme Court decisions.   Abortion?  I'm a male and that means I must defer to females. It affects females and not males obviously.  Those bloviating  Evangelical pastors who are almost always male need to STFU.

It's China's fault and our association with the global economy to a lesser extent. I hope you're not dumb enough to think that's racist like the liberal media thought/ told everyone that it was initially. You're a big government guy. Aren't you a bit pissed that Obama had the means and the capability to stockpile medical equipment and supplies for a large scale pandemic instead of wasting a trillion that amounted to only a few hundred billions for roads and a healthcare need by some or political need as I see it? Yes, I'm tired of preachy Evangelicals and preachy liberals and all their sermons. You may hate corporate America and hate corporate types but it will most likely be corporate America that leads us out of this mess because big government wasn't prepared again. So, how many big government failures do liberals need to see before they lose their faith  and stop promoting liberal dreams of grandeur?

(04-06-2020, 02:03 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Worse.  Mostly MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.  She has had several of the pandemic planners from previous administrations on her show.  She opens most every interview section with an expert with an invitation to critique her opening monolog, and they inevitably report it as just right.  While there is no doubt that she reports from a blue perspective, I know of no claims that her reporting is false, as opposed to common claims that the White House lies to its advantage and Fox News out of habit.

The army has one large federal stockpile of ventilators and offered it to be used in the epidemic, but reports that the White House did not inform them of where to send any.  They are sitting idle last time I caught it reported on.  However, the stockpile was not large enough to handle New York’s peak, let alone the country.  FEMA was sitting on another stockpile, but it was not going to the blue states or the red states either whose governors had made Trump mad by quoting the science that contradicted his happy talk.  He seems to be using ventilator and PPE equipment as revenge tools to get even against his perceived opponents who are just striving to preserve lives under their care.

The Coronavirus is the priority currently.  Rachel’s reporting might as well be The Coronavirus Show the last few months, and she reflects much of the blue’s priority on attention given.  As usual, you are speaking out of ignorance.  While I understand that you are allergic to Truth, you really ought to catch a little of the blue reporting if you are hoping to counter it with something more specific than screaming ‘lies’ or ‘fake news’ over and over.  The writing in ignorance is becoming obvious.

The Democratic base was focused on beating Bernie, of selecting a guy with middle of the road views who the Republicans would have more trouble demonizing.  I suspect that they are making a mistake, that extreme action is required to deal with the virus rather than blandness.  This may become obvious before the rescheduled convention, but that may be too late.  I can only hope he can become more aggressive in time, or his VP choice when it is her turn.

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 02:03 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Worse.  Mostly MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow.  She has had several of the pandemic planners from previous administrations on her show.  She opens most every interview section with an expert with an invitation to critique her opening monolog, and they inevitably report it as just right.  While there is no doubt that she reports from a blue perspective, I know of no claims that her reporting is false, as opposed to common claims that the White House lies to its advantage and Fox News out of habit.

The army has one large federal stockpile of ventilators and offered it to be used in the epidemic, but reports that the White House did not inform them of where to send any.  They are sitting idle last time I caught it reported on.  However, the stockpile was not large enough to handle New York’s peak, let alone the country.  FEMA was sitting on another stockpile, but it was not going to the blue states or the red states either whose governors had made Trump mad by quoting the science that contradicted his happy talk.  He seems to be using ventilator and PPE equipment as revenge tools to get even against his perceived opponents who are just striving to preserve lives under their care.

The Coronavirus is the priority currently.  Rachel’s reporting might as well be The Coronavirus Show the last few months, and she reflects much of the blue’s priority on attention given.  As usual, you are speaking out of ignorance.  While I understand that you are allergic to Truth, you really ought to catch a little of the blue reporting if you are hoping to counter it with something more specific than screaming ‘lies’ or ‘fake news’ over and over.  The writing in ignorance is becoming obvious.

The Democratic base was focused on beating Bernie, of selecting a guy with middle of the road views who the Republicans would have more trouble demonizing.  I suspect that they are making a mistake, that extreme action is required to deal with the virus rather than blandness.  This may become obvious before the rescheduled convention, but that may be too late.  I can only hope he can become more aggressive in time, or his VP choice when it is her turn.

Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

(04-07-2020, 02:20 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

The various guests were in the front lines for AIDS, S1N1 and SARS among others.  As for ‘ignorant and partisan”, what is there in the above posting that says anything?  How can I respond if there is nothing there?

Again, you should try watching a few of Rachel’s shows.  If you are going to criticize something or some group, know something about what they are saying or doing.  If you don’t bother to learn, all you can do is to show your ignorance.

(04-07-2020, 02:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I have yet to figure what Donald Trump does well that is a legitimate achievement. Oh, he got elected? In a fluke.

(04-07-2020, 02:20 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-06-2020, 11:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, that makes sense, she seems as ignorant and as partisan as you and most others like you here. So, what did those planners do to earn their paychecks during their stint under Obama other than flap their gums, fuck around and act important and accomplish little to nothing. BTW, that is what liberals seem to do best these days.

The various guests were in the front lines for AIDS, S1N1 and SARS among others.  As for ‘ignorant and partisan”, what is there in the above posting that says anything?  How can I respond if there is nothing there?

Again, you should try watching a few of Rachel’s shows.  If you are going to criticize something or some group, know something about what they are saying or doing.  If you don’t bother to learn, all you can do in show your ignorance.

(04-07-2020, 07:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-07-2020, 02:50 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I have yet to figure what Donald Trump does well that is a legitimate achievement. Oh, he got elected? In a fluke.

Not a fluke.  He was willing to tell a bunch of people what they thought they believed.  The Republican Establishment had long had enough affinity to the elites that the Tea Party did not trust them.  Reagan was in touch with his time, but years of ever more extreme policies enough to keep moving the US further in the same direction was not practical.  They had squeezed all the blood out of the stone, but the base wanted more.  Trump gave it to them.  But while ever smaller government, smaller taxes, and thus the less willingness to solve or even perceive of problems is a direction that sounds better than it is, a direction one can only sustain for a finite time.