(10-14-2016, 03:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-14-2016, 08:34 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-12-2016, 08:12 PM)disasterzone Wrote: I also wonder what would happen to a 4T type person who's angry that the revolution they wanted never happened and thinking everything's too wishy washy and mild. Someone who wants to push their 4T ideology on the max and believes that should have been the solution.

Can you give some examples of what you might be talking about?  Fourth turnings are basically pushed to the max already.  Pushing things further would involve stuff like executing all southern whites after the Civil War, or nuking Japanese and German cities after they had surrendered unconditionally; I'd think advocates of such things would just be ignored.

An example is someone upset that their solution to the 4T wasn't taken because things went a totally different way than what they think should have happened. It could be someone who was the loser in a war in some cases and now on the demonized side, other cases it could be someone who wanted a solution that the people rejected, even if they weren't at war with the other ideology at the time. Like a person who wanted the South to succeed from the union and was still angry at Abraham Lincoln. Or maybe even someone who was angry that communism wasn't used as the solution to the great depression and wished they had that type of a revolution in the US.

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote: Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

(10-30-2016, 11:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

The High is prosperous enough to allow some attractive diversions.  If people did not numb themselves in the cocktail longes of the High, there was television. Work pays well enough to provide copious cheap entertainment. Above all, 3T behavior is stigmatized for making the Crisis as nasty as it was. Cultural figures from the 2T have made their adaptations or they are forgotten. Such fictional characters as Lina Lamont (Singin' in the Rain) and Nora Desmond (Sunset Boulevard) find themselves irrelevant as cultural trends of the 4T develop; if they have not adapted they become even more irrelevant in the High.

I doubt that many people had much nostalgia for the Roaring Twenties after World War II, except perhaps for the Harlem Renaissance among blacks. Even that was scrupulously repressed outside of big urban centers in the North and West.

Where the dissent arises is among people who want to participate fully in the bounty of a High and are denied -- like Southern blacks -- or among people with empathy for the oppressed. Were the likes of Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and Martin Luther King rebels... or conformists? I say the latter.

The real cause of the Awakening is that for the first time people enter adulthood with no memory of the strictures of the previous Crisis, people who have the inclination for some cultural recklessness.

(10-30-2016, 10:50 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

What happens to Civics or very old artists who find themselves at odds with society during the 1T when the 2T comes around? Would they feel relieved or would they feel their life was wasted because they were forced to live so much of it in eras they were at odds with? Would they lament being born in the wrong time?

(10-31-2016, 07:54 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(10-30-2016, 10:50 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

What happens to Civics or very old artists who find themselves at odds with society during the 1T when the 2T comes around? Would they feel relieved or would they feel their life was wasted because they were forced to live so much of it in eras they were at odds with? Would they lament being born in the wrong time?

They would be relieved.  Wiesner, for example, was a GI who let student protesters occupy his office without trying to keep them out.

(10-30-2016, 11:49 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-30-2016, 11:38 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The High is prosperous enough to allow some attractive diversions.  If people did not numb themselves in the cocktail longes of the High, there was television. Work pays well enough to provide copious cheap entertainment. Above all, 3T behavior is stigmatized for making the Crisis as nasty as it was. Cultural figures from the 2T have made their adaptations or they are forgotten. Such fictional characters as Lina Lamont (Singin' in the Rain) and Nora Desmond (Sunset Boulevard) find themselves irrelevant as cultural trends of the 4T develop; if they have not adapted they become even more irrelevant in the High.

I doubt that many people had much nostalgia for the Roaring Twenties after World War II, except perhaps for the Harlem Renaissance among blacks. Even that was scrupulously repressed outside of big urban centers in the North and West.

Where the dissent arises is among people who want to participate fully in the bounty of a High and are denied -- like Southern blacks -- or among people with empathy for the oppressed. Were the likes of Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and Martin Luther King rebels... or conformists? I say the latter.  

The real cause of the Awakening is that for the first time people enter adulthood with no memory of the strictures of the previous Crisis, people who have the inclination for some cultural recklessness.

But what if someone's takeaway from the 4T was that stability didn't exist so you may as well take risks? Someone who instead of feeling like they were shaping the 4T that the 4T just took them along this arbitrary ride they were forced to be in. Then the 1T tried to force them in a box and take their dreams away. Who felt so deprived at the end of it, they wanted to have a 3T lifestyle?


What I wonder is how people in the 1T would react if someone lived so foolishly to them (like the 1990s or roaring 20s) but succeeded because of the extreme risk taking? In other words, how would the people of the 1T react to a person who lived against their wisdom but won or got what they wanted in the end? Would they be villainized?

(11-07-2016, 12:01 AM)Einzige Wrote: This is basically what I exist for. I'm too old to be the next Allan Ginsberg or William S. Burroughs, but I want to be the guy who influences the next Allan Ginsburg or William S. Burroughs and to be so remembered by proxy.

Quote:One aesthetic influence on my thinking is the industrial rock scene of the last Third Turning, whether relatively more underground acts like Godflesh and Swans or mainstream acts like Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson. I feel like those people had Something Important To Say, but the time for it isn't yet. I'd like to be a medium, a conduit to transmit that thinking to the cutting-edge of the next Artists, who in turn pass it on to the Neo-Prophets.

(10-30-2016, 11:16 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: So, the upcoming 1T is just a past is prologue for Rags. I just want weed legalization to continue apace so it gets normed just like booze and ciggies in the 1950's.  In closing, 1T's are when "Better Living Through Chemistry" comes into its own , and for that, Rags is looking most forward to the end of the icky 4T and towards another 1T and most likely another 2T of chemical bliss.

Quote:Millies, please invent some nifty new mind altering chemicals for Rags to enjoy.

(10-30-2016, 10:50 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-30-2016, 12:05 PM)FLBones Wrote:

(10-29-2016, 04:30 PM)disasterzone Wrote:

(10-27-2016, 12:31 PM)FLBones Wrote: Well, it's like it says in the 4T book, those outside of the mainstream culture feel stifled by the conformity. They may also be prone to prosecution as was the case with McCartyhism. During the last 1T, the red scare set about a socially conservative climate which the 50s are known for. The 1920s however was a decade where the social climate became more and more liberal.

Would they drink or severely isolate from other people themselves to survive the 1T and numb themselves until it's over? Turn to financial risk taking because the normal system has nothing to offer them and they really have nothing to lose?

In past first turnings, they were usually put to socially useful tasks and blended in. If they followed the conventional way of the High, they'd probably find it dull and mind numbing. May use tranquilizers to numb this out, like some housewives did in the 1950s or the Beatniks. For those who openly go againist the norms of the High era, they will find themselves at odds from society, finding it difficult to get along with others and face expulsion dealing with an us vs them mentality.

I think during a High era, for the late wave artists, and the early wave prophet generations, they just go along with the flow because there's nothing else to do but their inner lives are under turmoil at the same time. As time goes on, the inner struggles become overpowering and they sense this void in society and thus, the 2T begins. I'm sure Awakenings are bring some relief to these people.

What happens to Civics or very old artists who find themselves at odds with society during the 1T when the 2T comes around? Would they feel relieved or would they feel their life was wasted because they were forced to live so much of it in eras they were at odds with? Would they lament being born in the wrong time?

Also what would happen to one of them if despite conflicting with so many people, continued to get their way during the 1T? Would it cause major hate and resentment?

(11-07-2016, 11:32 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-07-2016, 05:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-30-2016, 11:16 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: So, the upcoming 1T is just a past is prologue for Rags. I just want weed legalization to continue apace so it gets normed just like booze and ciggies in the 1950's.  In closing, 1T's are when "Better Living Through Chemistry" comes into its own , and for that, Rags is looking most forward to the end of the icky 4T and towards another 1T and most likely another 2T of chemical bliss.

Watch CA. The marijuana legalizing initiative is leading in the polls so far.

Quote:Millies, please invent some nifty new mind altering chemicals for Rags to enjoy.

May it expand your mind enough so you can enjoy the mystic musings of Eric and see beyond the rantings of the vandal.

(and of course graduate from noise to mystical mind-expanding music. Witchi Tai To gimmera...... and of course http://philosopherswheel.com/toccata.htm )

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I can soon self medicate with Cannabis without getting a Medical Cannabis Card. Many don't realize it, but getting such a card is a permanent item on one's government record. It precludes one from certain approvals and can be deemed a negative finding for various background investigations. Hopefully all of that will be history in the near future, at least in California. National will hopefully be next.

(11-08-2016, 06:40 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- then why are you pimping the hildabitch, who wants to make things worse? Jill (a MD, btw) wants to legalize weed.  the Donald views it as a states rights matter & would leave it up to them. Not sure how thst would affect one's Govt record, whatever that is. lf weed legalization is that important to you vote Jill

(11-08-2016, 03:42 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: You're fine with pure bolsheviks, then.

(11-08-2016, 05:28 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-08-2016, 03:42 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: You're fine with pure bolsheviks, then.

I'm not, however, such are few and far between. I think Kinser79 or whatever he goes by these days is one. A pretty rare bird.