(04-16-2020, 02:16 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-15-2020, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote: Here's a thought exercise.  Society acts to disadvantage a group of people, and it does that over several generations. The disadvantaged group is now much poorer, less healthy and less able to change either of those conditions relative to the majority who weren't disadvantaged.  They got where they are through no fault of their own, or the fault of their forebears either.  What does society owe for the screwing they've gotten?  Would you feel the same if you and yours were in that group?

I don't owe them anything. I didn't screw them. My ancestors won the war that freed them and me parents supported the party that ended Jim Crow. The Democrat party probably owe them something. So, how much of the wealth associated with your social security and medicare and your wife income and retirement do you want us to give them? You're on the side with all the guilt. The black folks on our side don't want it and oppose it.  That's progress.

(04-16-2020, 10:09 AM)David Horn Wrote: Actually, the greatest harm started long after the ACW was over.  Much happened in the South (KKK and all that), but the North wasn't blameless.  Let's take redlining as a good example.  If you were not-white, you couldn't get a mortgage in a good neighborhood, and, in most places, no one would sell you a house in one anyway.  So blacks, Latinos and other minorities got pushed into bad neighborhoods and high cost mortgages. Continue this practice for three generations, and you've bled those groups of any assets they may have accumulated.  That was the dominant condition.  Some escaped, but not many.  Whites, on the other hand, got the good deals all along, and made a quantum leap after WW-II with the GI Bill.  Veterans mortgages were unavailable to blacks in almost the entire country.

So yes, you and your forbearers contributed -- knowingly or not --to the mess that exists.

(04-16-2020, 02:16 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-15-2020, 12:29 PM)David Horn Wrote: Here's a thought exercise.  Society acts to disadvantage a group of people, and it does that over several generations. The disadvantaged group is now much poorer, less healthy and less able to change either of those conditions relative to the majority who weren't disadvantaged.  They got where they are through no fault of their own, or the fault of their forebears either.  What does society owe for the screwing they've gotten?  Would you feel the same if you and yours were in that group?

I don't owe them anything. I didn't screw them. My ancestors won the war that freed them and me parents supported the party that ended Jim Crow. The Democrat party probably owe them something. So, how much of the wealth associated with your social security and medicare and your wife income and retirement do you want us to give them? You're on the side with all the guilt. The black folks on our side don't want it and oppose it.  That's progress.

(04-16-2020, 02:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-16-2020, 01:48 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I knew that it wasn't accurate the way it was presented. I didn't lie.

You did lie.   The quote from the Constitution is exactly what is said by the Constitution.  Even now you are compounding your lie.

If your ideology tells you something, chances are that it is wrong.  What are you trying to do?  Channel your inner Trump or Fox News?  Shape reality to fit your imaginings?  Much of your ideology tells you what liberals are, and you try to sell it to real liberals.  Do you believe you know them better than they do themselves?  Other parts of your ideology are easily fact checked.  You ought to do so before you are fact checked out of all credibility.

Oh.  Sorry.  Too late.

(04-17-2020, 03:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Let me get this straight. You posted a personal snip it of the preamble and I'm wrong for questioning it and the way you presented it. As far as I know, you are a retiree living off a private pension and social security and already on medicare. Right now, I'm not working and paying in like twenty million others which means the social security trust fund is being significantly drained right now. So, I hope you are living good and feeling well as we are sacrificing for people like you right now.

(04-16-2020, 03:24 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-16-2020, 10:09 AM)David Horn Wrote: Actually, the greatest harm started long after the ACW was over.  Much happened in the South (KKK and all that), but the North wasn't blameless.  Let's take redlining as a good example.  If you were not-white, you couldn't get a mortgage in a good neighborhood, and, in most places, no one would sell you a house in one anyway.  So blacks, Latinos and other minorities got pushed into bad neighborhoods and high cost mortgages. Continue this practice for three generations, and you've bled those groups of any assets they may have accumulated.  That was the dominant condition.  Some escaped, but not many.  Whites, on the other hand, got the good deals all along, and made a quantum leap after WW-II with the GI Bill.  Veterans mortgages were unavailable to blacks in almost the entire country.

So yes, you and your forbearers contributed -- knowingly or not --to the mess that exists.

You don't think life as a slave with no rights at all was worse than life as a black person with rights during Jim Crow or life as a black person that has same rights as everyone else today. Like I said, the Democratic probably has something to feel guilty about since the Democrats  were the ones running the show domestically for well over a century ( Pre- Civil War through post Jim Crow). I'm not a Democrat and have never been a Democrat.  Right now, we (the country) have four classes black people like the white people and both races have an underclass too these days. How are you going to win an ideological argument with me/us with so much proof of advancement among blacks these days? So, who is the ideologue and who isn't? You might be guilty and have something to feel guilty about relating it but I don't. I'd say all the races are about the same in that regard.

(04-17-2020, 09:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: So your counter argument is: things were worse in the distant past, so bad things aren't important today?  And yes, it was the Southern Democrats who made Jim Crow work -- until LBJ.  After that it was the GOP in the South and North, not that party politics has a bearing here.  It was a culture-wide phenomenon, and a lot of people got hurt, just not white people.  It will take along time to rebalance that error, but it's not surprising at all that the people still affected by it are getting antsy.

So saying that there are poor whites doesn't cut it.  Of course there are, but it's the extent of the damage that's the issue.  If 10% of whites are below the poverty line, while it's 25% of the black community, that's a societal hurt that 's been inflicted, not just laziness or bad attitude.  FWIW, I'm good with lifting up everyone.  There will be a lot of need soon, when the COVID-19 Depression ends, and the damage is devastating.

(04-17-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 09:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: So your counter argument is: things were worse in the distant past, so bad things aren't important today?  And yes, it was the Southern Democrats who made Jim Crow work -- until LBJ.  After that it was the GOP in the South and North, not that party politics has a bearing here.  It was a culture-wide phenomenon, and a lot of people got hurt, just not white people.  It will take along time to rebalance that error, but it's not surprising at all that the people still affected by it are getting antsy.

So saying that there are poor whites doesn't cut it.  Of course there are, but it's the extent of the damage that's the issue.  If 10% of whites are below the poverty line, while it's 25% of the black community, that's a societal hurt that 's been inflicted, not just laziness or bad attitude.  FWIW, I'm good with lifting up everyone.  There will be a lot of need soon, when the COVID-19 Depression ends, and the damage is devastating.

The whites have more people living below the poverty line than the blacks do right now. My point is that there are no more slaves or southern confederates that exist today. We still have some slaves but they're associated with illegal/criminal l activity referred to a illegal human trafficking that's directly associated with illegal immigration. I don't live in the past. You can bring it up and call us racist or meanies for disagreeing, not feeling guilty and not supporting slave retribution these days.

(04-16-2020, 04:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: The Democratic Party isn't quite the same one of sixty years ago, especially in the South. The agrarian racists have basically gone to the Republican Party.

By the way -- I have just as much claim as you do to glory in the Civil War for freeing the slaves -- none. I had a great-great grandfather who got as far south as Chattanooga and died of measles, one who got as far south as Corinth, Mississippi and got disabled from dysentery, and three brothers of a great-great grandfather who all served in the Civil War and perished in it. That glory is not mine. Those people are in my genealogical files, and I no more own their honor than I own the land that their families owned.

(04-17-2020, 04:24 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 09:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: So your counter argument is: things were worse in the distant past, so bad things aren't important today?  And yes, it was the Southern Democrats who made Jim Crow work -- until LBJ.  After that it was the GOP in the South and North, not that party politics has a bearing here.  It was a culture-wide phenomenon, and a lot of people got hurt, just not white people.  It will take along time to rebalance that error, but it's not surprising at all that the people still affected by it are getting antsy.

So saying that there are poor whites doesn't cut it.  Of course there are, but it's the extent of the damage that's the issue.  If 10% of whites are below the poverty line, while it's 25% of the black community, that's a societal hurt that 's been inflicted, not just laziness or bad attitude.  FWIW, I'm good with lifting up everyone.  There will be a lot of need soon, when the COVID-19 Depression ends, and the damage is devastating.

The whites have more people living below the poverty line than the blacks do right now. My point is that there are no more slaves or southern confederates that exist today. We still have some slaves but they're associated with illegal/criminal l activity referred to a illegal human trafficking that's directly associated with illegal immigration. I don't live in the past. You can bring it up and call us racist or meanies for disagreeing, not feeling guilty and not supporting slave retribution these days.

If I take your argument to its extreme, If a town has 10 black families, and 5 of those families are in poverty, they are less tragic than the 8 white families in the same straits, even though there are 2,000 white families.

(04-18-2020, 02:48 AM)taramarie Wrote: What would it help being part of a different generation? Just curious. If it is to do with the coronavirus, i am a millennial and have to be careful because i have acute asthma. If it has to do with living your retirement in a crisis, well life sucks for everyone in a different time. I didnt get a great start in life with my youth being spent in this crisis here and now. Then apparently there will be a generation that tries to tear everything apart that we millies will create in the future? No thanks! As said, all generations go through some bs at different times. Gen X probably could say the same so i hear. Lol.

(04-17-2020, 05:36 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: … And I can’t help a little bit but resent the selfish and hedonistic way some people are ignoring the isolation precautions.  The more you bypass the precautions, the longer they have to stay in place.  These people care more about themselves than, say, the first responders and medical professionals. They cling to the Unravelling old ideals rather than shifting with the Trigger.

That’s pretty much where I am right now.

(04-17-2020, 06:12 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 04:24 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 09:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: So your counter argument is: things were worse in the distant past, so bad things aren't important today?  And yes, it was the Southern Democrats who made Jim Crow work -- until LBJ.  After that it was the GOP in the South and North, not that party politics has a bearing here.  It was a culture-wide phenomenon, and a lot of people got hurt, just not white people.  It will take along time to rebalance that error, but it's not surprising at all that the people still affected by it are getting antsy.

So saying that there are poor whites doesn't cut it.  Of course there are, but it's the extent of the damage that's the issue.  If 10% of whites are below the poverty line, while it's 25% of the black community, that's a societal hurt that 's been inflicted, not just laziness or bad attitude.  FWIW, I'm good with lifting up everyone.  There will be a lot of need soon, when the COVID-19 Depression ends, and the damage is devastating.

The whites have more people living below the poverty line than the blacks do right now. My point is that there are no more slaves or southern confederates that exist today. We still have some slaves but they're associated with illegal/criminal l activity referred to a illegal human trafficking that's directly associated with illegal immigration. I don't live in the past. You can bring it up and call us racist or meanies for disagreeing, not feeling guilty and not supporting slave retribution these days.

If I take your argument to its extreme, If a town has 10 black families, and 5 of those families are in poverty, they are less tragic than the 8 white families in the same straits, even though there are 2,000 white families.

If a town has 10 black families and 5 black families are in poverty then I'd say that there is a very distinct difference between the black families that live in the town. I'd also say that race/racism isn't the issue in the town since the town has five black families who are making it and living there. What makes the five black ones more tragic/important  than the eight white ones who aren't making it these days? Is it slavery or Jim Crow Laws or most likely something else unrelated like a change in preferred lifestyle or addiction or mental health issues or distinct departures from social norms and rejection of social norms. So, do you still think I'm an ideologue and you're not one or a better one at this point? They say that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. I would say that's hard to do with old ideologues like yourself too.

(04-18-2020, 08:02 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 05:36 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: … And I can’t help a little bit but resent the selfish and hedonistic way some people are ignoring the isolation precautions.  The more you bypass the precautions, the longer they have to stay in place.  These people care more about themselves than, say, the first responders and medical professionals. They cling to the Unravelling old ideals rather than shifting with the Trigger.

That’s pretty much where I am right now.

I share this, but with a caveat.  There are many small business people who actively resisted taxation and regulation when it paid them well, and saved little if anything for the proverbial rainy day.  Now, they're stuck at home, their businesses closed and their income at $0.00.  So they lash out at their fate -- one they fully participated in creating -- and cry for their hero DJT to release the Kraken and bring back prosperity.  They firmly believe that this is a hoax, or, if not a hoax, then exaggerated for someone else's benefit. It's irrational, but 40 years of the Kool-Aid takes its tole.

I'm starting to believe that we'll see a sate-by-state experiment in daring the virus to get us.  Since all state borders are porous, the rest of us will have to be extra vigilant.

(04-17-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 09:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: So your counter argument is: things were worse in the distant past, so bad things aren't important today?  And yes, it was the Southern Democrats who made Jim Crow work -- until LBJ.  After that it was the GOP in the South and North, not that party politics has a bearing here.  It was a culture-wide phenomenon, and a lot of people got hurt, just not white people.  It will take along time to rebalance that error, but it's not surprising at all that the people still affected by it are getting antsy.

So saying that there are poor whites doesn't cut it.  Of course there are, but it's the extent of the damage that's the issue.  If 10% of whites are below the poverty line, while it's 25% of the black community, that's a societal hurt that 's been inflicted, not just laziness or bad attitude.  FWIW, I'm good with lifting up everyone.  There will be a lot of need soon, when the COVID-19 Depression ends, and the damage is devastating.

The whites have more people living below the poverty line than the blacks do right now. My point is that there are no more slaves or southern confederates that exist today. We still have some slaves but they're associated with illegal/criminal l activity referred to a illegal human trafficking that's directly associated with illegal immigration. I don't live in the past. You can bring it up and call us racist or meanies for disagreeing, not feeling guilty and not supporting slave retribution these days.

(04-18-2020, 02:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Blacks still have more people living in poverty.

The US Census declared that in 2014 14.8% of the general population lived in poverty:[82]

10.1% of all white non-Hispanic persons
12.0% of all Asian persons
23.6% of all Hispanic persons (of any race)
26.2% of all African American persons
28.3% of Native Americans / Alaska Natives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#Poverty_and_race/ethnicity

If whites are getting poorer too, that is the direct result of the Republican policies they have supported. They largely supported them for social-issue reasons, for their religion and their resentment over giving welfare to black people with their taxes. Resentment over immigration has also been stoked recently by Trump. The result has been big breaks for big business, resulting in stagnant income for most of the population, white and people of color alike, while prices have skyrocketed.

The southern confederates still exist, and have become more racist recently. Whites in the South vote for these Republican policies in 80 to 90% margins.  Most of the people today are pretty much wage slaves living paycheck to paycheck, while rich people (and I'm pretty well off myself now) get more and more of the pie, thanks to the low taxes and low wages which your Republican Party has instituted over 40 years.

(04-18-2020, 02:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 03:09 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-17-2020, 09:53 AM)David Horn Wrote: So your counter argument is: things were worse in the distant past, so bad things aren't important today?  And yes, it was the Southern Democrats who made Jim Crow work -- until LBJ.  After that it was the GOP in the South and North, not that party politics has a bearing here.  It was a culture-wide phenomenon, and a lot of people got hurt, just not white people.  It will take along time to rebalance that error, but it's not surprising at all that the people still affected by it are getting antsy.

So saying that there are poor whites doesn't cut it.  Of course there are, but it's the extent of the damage that's the issue.  If 10% of whites are below the poverty line, while it's 25% of the black community, that's a societal hurt that 's been inflicted, not just laziness or bad attitude.  FWIW, I'm good with lifting up everyone.  There will be a lot of need soon, when the COVID-19 Depression ends, and the damage is devastating.

The whites have more people living below the poverty line than the blacks do right now. My point is that there are no more slaves or southern confederates that exist today. We still have some slaves but they're associated with illegal/criminal l activity referred to a illegal human trafficking that's directly associated with illegal immigration. I don't live in the past. You can bring it up and call us racist or meanies for disagreeing, not feeling guilty and not supporting slave retribution these days.

Blacks still have more people living in poverty.

The US Census declared that in 2014 14.8% of the general population lived in poverty:[82]

10.1% of all white non-Hispanic persons
12.0% of all Asian persons
23.6% of all Hispanic persons (of any race)
26.2% of all African American persons
28.3% of Native Americans / Alaska Natives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#Poverty_and_race/ethnicity

If whites are getting poorer too, that is the direct result of the Republican policies they have supported. They largely supported them for social-issue reasons, for their religion and their resentment over giving welfare to black people with their taxes. Resentment over immigration has also been stoked recently by Trump. The result has been big breaks for big business, resulting in stagnant income for most of the population, white and people of color alike, while prices have skyrocketed.

The southern confederates still exist, and have become more racist recently. Whites in the South vote for these Republican policies in 80 to 90% margins.  Most of the people today are pretty much wage slaves living paycheck to paycheck, while rich people (and I'm pretty well off myself now) get more and more of the pie, thanks to the low taxes and low wages which your Republican Party has instituted over 40 years.

(04-18-2020, 04:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I told you before, I'm going to watch as you're beaten to death and your leadership is strung up before I open up and layout a bunch of no good radicals and begin hunting them down like rabid animals without mercy.

(04-18-2020, 04:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(04-18-2020, 02:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Blacks still have more people living in poverty.

The US Census declared that in 2014 14.8% of the general population lived in poverty:[82]

10.1% of all white non-Hispanic persons
12.0% of all Asian persons
23.6% of all Hispanic persons (of any race)
26.2% of all African American persons
28.3% of Native Americans / Alaska Natives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#Poverty_and_race/ethnicity

If whites are getting poorer too, that is the direct result of the Republican policies they have supported. They largely supported them for social-issue reasons, for their religion and their resentment over giving welfare to black people with their taxes. Resentment over immigration has also been stoked recently by Trump. The result has been big breaks for big business, resulting in stagnant income for most of the population, white and people of color alike, while prices have skyrocketed.

The southern confederates still exist, and have become more racist recently. Whites in the South vote for these Republican policies in 80 to 90% margins.  Most of the people today are pretty much wage slaves living paycheck to paycheck, while rich people (and I'm pretty well off myself now) get more and more of the pie, thanks to the low taxes and low wages which your Republican Party has instituted over 40 years.

I wonder why they're becoming more racist or deadly for a better term. I suppose you don't think liberals pushing/backing a racist agenda of their own has anything to do with the recent up tick in mass shootings. I can see it as clear as day. Why can't you? Why can't you see that you're guilty of spreading racist views and keeping racism alive. I told you before, I'm going to watch as you're beaten to death and your leadership is strung up before I open up and layout a bunch of no good radicals and begin hunting them down like rabid animals without mercy. You've already admitted to us that logic and reason aren't your strong suit.

(04-19-2020, 10:20 AM)taramarie Wrote: Whoa hey what is your problem? Why do you incite violence in speech? Logic and reason is not shown in those words you just said so practice what you preach and stick to logic and reason without throwing in violence. Violent speech is weak in logic and reason. Keep it up, i will report you.