(06-11-2020, 11:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump seems to be doubling down hard on his racist and repressive stands. He adamantly crushes demands to rename military bases in the South named after confederate generals. Why make such a big deal out of this? I admit I didn't even know who they were named after. But why make a fuss and why not just go along with the trend?

And when people in Seattle take over an area outside a police station and occupy it and announce they are turning it into a community center, Mr. Drump jumps in and says to Seattle, get rid of these people or I will do it for you. Despite the criticism he got from his own and other former generals about such rhetoric, he does not apologize but doubles down. Meanwhile he tweets his disdain for those who criticized him. Nothing unusual there.

And he does not agree with taking away criminal immunity from police, even though that is a principle roadblock in the way of reform.

I'm sure there are other examples of Trump double-downs, but those are what come to mind.

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 07:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Ain't much of struggle between the so called partisan divide  at this point with Red America remaining  neutral for the most part at this point while  whatever partisan divide or cultural rift that still exists within blue America is being settled. What you've been  watching and seeing lately mainly pertains to blue America these days with the other side waiting to see which side of the blue divide prevails as the victor. I hate to say this but if your side doesn't have the balls to control a bunch of radicals  nuts and a bunch criminals then you and every other clueless fool who posts here are going to get a taste of what it was like to live in the wild west. That  seems to be the direction that the nuts and the criminals want to take blue America at this point and the liberal Democrats seem more eager to appease and cater to their demands then stop them at this point.

The looters and the Bugaboo Bois seem to be fading somewhat.  They seem to be giving up the stage.  Perhaps the few incidents where the protesters turned the violent over to the police contributed, but the protesters have been on center stage alone for the last few days.  The curfews have mostly been dropped, decriminalizing assembly and partitioning for the right of grievances and putting the onus on stopping to the violence on the too violent police.

I have always thought of the reds having a racist element, one that they generally do not push hard, but which Trump by encouraging the KKK, the Neo Nazi, the racist police, and using the military against the American people, has cashed in on.  I suspect the the vehemence of the current protest is in part a reaction against the red resonance with racist attitudes.

But with the exception of Trump and the White House administration, the red celebration of racism seems to have stepped back down in the last few weeks.  Like, when one of the recent protests takes shape, you don’t see the KKK or the Neo Nazi counter demonstrating in favor of racism.  At the moment the voice of the people is for all men being equal under law, and this has taken a crisis heart intensity of resolve.  Well might the reds, Republicans, violent police unions, KKK and Neo Nazi make themselves scarce just now.  If the civics are finally following S&H’s call to redefine what will be acceptable after the crisis, thank you, and it is about time.  If they would only show as strong a reaction against those that ignore the isolation guidelines.

But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

(06-11-2020, 11:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 11:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump seems to be doubling down hard on his racist and repressive stands. He adamantly crushes demands to rename military bases in the South named after confederate generals. Why make such a big deal out of this? I admit I didn't even know who they were named after. But why make a fuss and why not just go along with the trend?

And when people in Seattle take over an area outside a police station and occupy it and announce they are turning it into a community center, Mr. Drump jumps in and says to Seattle, get rid of these people or I will do it for you. Despite the criticism he got from his own and other former generals about such rhetoric, he does not apologize but doubles down. Meanwhile he tweets his disdain for those who criticized him. Nothing unusual there.

And he does not agree with taking away criminal immunity from police, even though that is a principle roadblock in the way of reform.

I'm sure there are other examples of Trump double-downs, but those are what come to mind.

What's the difference between the blue ilk of today and the Nazi's and the Bolshevik's '(blue ilk) of old? You better be careful about who and what you support and promote these days. As I've mentioned, gunning down a bunch of fascists and communists ain't going to be a problem with today's American right.   Do you know any Democrats who are DUMB enough to fight or die for you or them  these days? I don't really care if you redistribute police funding to them and end up losing the bulk of your police force. I mean, the liberals are pretty much fucked already and liberals fucking themselves more makes sense to all of us at this point.

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.  Like I said, the racist white groups aren't   much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.  I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too. How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance? What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics. In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understands that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

(06-12-2020, 07:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

One question: will submerging the racism and racist culture just trigger a resurgence in the 1T? Exiting the Great Power saeculum, when the war was won and terms of peace set, Joe McCarthy and the HUAC spun-up a hate campaign that smeared a lot of very good people.  Are we due for that again?

(06-12-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.  Like I said, the racist white groups aren't   much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.  I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too. How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance? What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics. In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understands that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

I have long seen the Republican Party as having racist and elitist elements.  The Tea Party did a decent job of rejecting the elite element.  Establishment Republicans really had a hard time getting near the White House last time around.  The recent protests are going after the racist elements.  Racism, violence and murder are being rejected hard.

If these two elements are both removed, that is a win from your perspective, I would think.  The small government, low taxes, ignore problems aspect remains, but has gone well past the point of diminishing returns.  Still, that is part of the traditional divide, almost respectable when compared to the elitist and racist tendencies.  It will cycle back and forth, government doing most with the crisis heart, then that fades down with the cycles though the unraveling.

But what you are seeing is one aspect of red culture going away, becoming less dominant, be it one aspect I suspect neither of us respect.

(06-12-2020, 06:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I view the KKK and Neo Nazi's as minor problems compared the problems that we've seen recently and seen not so long ago and seen decades earlier in other places. I could be wrong but it appears that the Democratic/ liberal side has way more radicals who are into participating large scale violence and destroying private/public  property that impact way more  lives than those carried out by  the KKK and Neo Nazi's combined these days.

However, I'm not going to be surprised when a bunch of radical liberals are either blown up or gunned down by some Neo Nazi or a group of Neo Nazi's. I'll be the first to point it out to you and every other liberal here and say I told you so. Hell, I may even decide to really  rub your nose in it and add insult to injury. As a general rule, I won't go that low but I will make an exception and go that low with you and every liberal who hasn't learned to think before they blurt something that comes across as clueless liberal and automatically accuse or broad brush like clueless liberals do and so forth.

CNN Wrote:In the wake of George Floyd's killing, the Movement for Black Lives -- already a massive global force -- has succeeded in birthing a phenomenon infinitely larger than itself. It can only be called a "Great Awakening" of empathy and solidarity, one without historical precedent.

(06-13-2020, 02:43 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Well, technically...

CNN says... 

CNN Wrote:In the wake of George Floyd's killing, the Movement for Black Lives -- already a massive global force -- has succeeded in birthing a phenomenon infinitely larger than itself. It can only be called a "Great Awakening" of empathy and solidarity, one without historical precedent.

Should someone explain that the name for this event without historical precedent has been taken?  

No No.  This is a crisis...

(06-12-2020, 06:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-12-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.  Like I said, the racist white groups aren't   much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.  I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too. How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance? What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics. In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understands that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

I have long seen the Republican Party as having racist and elitist elements.  The Tea Party did a decent job of rejecting the elite element.  Establishment Republicans really had a hard time getting near the White House last time around.  The recent protests are going after the racist elements.  Racism, violence and murder are being rejected hard.

If these two elements are both removed, that is a win from your perspective, I would think.  The small government, low taxes, ignore problems aspect remains, but has gone well past the point of diminishing returns.  Still, that is part of the traditional divide, almost respectable when compared to the elitist and racist tendencies.  It will cycle back and forth, government doing most with the crisis heart, then that fades down with the cycles though the unraveling.

But what you are seeing is one aspect of red culture going away, becoming less dominant, be it one aspect I suspect neither of us respect.

I view the KKK and Neo Nazi's as minor problems compared the problems that we've seen recently and seen not so long ago and seen decades earlier in other places. I could be wrong but it appears that the Democratic/ liberal side has way more radicals who are into participating large scale violence and destroying private/public  property that impact way more  lives than those carried out by  the KKK and Neo Nazi's combined these days.

Quote:However, I'm not going to be surprised when a bunch of radical liberals are either blown up or gunned down by some Neo Nazi or a group of Neo Nazi's. I'll be the first to point it out to you and every other liberal here and say I told you so. Hell, I may even decide to really  rub your nose in it and add insult to injury. As a general rule, I won't go that low but I will make an exception and go that low with you and every liberal who hasn't learned to think before they blurt something that comes across as clueless liberal and automatically accuse or broad brush like clueless liberals do and so forth.

(06-13-2020, 02:43 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Well, technically...

CNN says... 

CNN Wrote:In the wake of George Floyd's killing, the Movement for Black Lives -- already a massive global force -- has succeeded in birthing a phenomenon infinitely larger than itself. It can only be called a "Great Awakening" of empathy and solidarity, one without historical precedent.

Should someone explain that the name for this event without historical precedent has been taken?  

No No.  This is a crisis...

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 07:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Ain't much of struggle between the so called partisan divide  at this point with Red America remaining  neutral for the most part at this point while  whatever partisan divide or cultural rift that still exists within blue America is being settled. What you've been  watching and seeing lately mainly pertains to blue America these days with the other side waiting to see which side of the blue divide prevails as the victor. I hate to say this but if your side doesn't have the balls to control a bunch of radicals  nuts and a bunch criminals then you and every other clueless fool who posts here are going to get a taste of what it was like to live in the wild west. That  seems to be the direction that the nuts and the criminals want to take blue America at this point and the liberal Democrats seem more eager to appease and cater to their demands then stop them at this point.

The looters and the Bugaboo Bois seem to be fading somewhat.  They seem to be giving up the stage.  Perhaps the few incidents where the protesters turned the violent over to the police contributed, but the protesters have been on center stage alone for the last few days.  The curfews have mostly been dropped, decriminalizing assembly and partitioning for the right of grievances and putting the onus on stopping to the violence on the too violent police.

I have always thought of the reds having a racist element, one that they generally do not push hard, but which Trump by encouraging the KKK, the Neo Nazi, the racist police, and using the military against the American people, has cashed in on.  I suspect the the vehemence of the current protest is in part a reaction against the red resonance with racist attitudes.

But with the exception of Trump and the White House administration, the red celebration of racism seems to have stepped back down in the last few weeks.  Like, when one of the recent protests takes shape, you don’t see the KKK or the Neo Nazi counter demonstrating in favor of racism.  At the moment the voice of the people is for all men being equal under law, and this has taken a crisis heart intensity of resolve.  Well might the reds, Republicans, violent police unions, KKK and Neo Nazi make themselves scarce just now.  If the civics are finally following S&H’s call to redefine what will be acceptable after the crisis, thank you, and it is about time.  If they would only show as strong a reaction against those that ignore the isolation guidelines.

But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.

Quote:Like I said, the racist white groups aren't much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.

Quote:I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too.

Quote:How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance?

Quote:What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics.

Quote:In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understand that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

(06-13-2020, 05:25 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

I would be inclined to doubt gentleness.  In the high, you generally stomp on the remnants of the old values with forethought and vindictiveness.  I suspect there will be movements directed against the sort of political fantasies the red have indulged in during the unraveling.

(06-13-2020, 05:25 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

I would be inclined to doubt gentleness.  In the high, you generally stomp on the remnants of the old values with forethought and vindictiveness.  I suspect there will be movements directed against the sort of political fantasies the red have indulged in during the unraveling.

(06-13-2020, 07:49 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:25 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

I would be inclined to doubt gentleness.  In the high, you generally stomp on the remnants of the old values with forethought and vindictiveness.  I suspect there will be movements directed against the sort of political fantasies the red have indulged in during the unraveling.

That will be emotionally satisfying, but essentially worthless, unless the power shifts down to average people and remains there.  If we fail in that task, then the elites will bide their time and retake their current power positions. It sucks, but it's been inevitable so far.  After all, Alphas are Alphas and Betas are Betas.

(06-13-2020, 05:38 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I dare you -- I double-dog dare you -- no I triple-dog dare you with a wolverine on the side -- to name such a group. 

(06-13-2020, 03:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: CNN reports that Fox News publishes digitally altered and misleading images of Seattle demonstrations

Among other things, they report what happened in Seattle while showing events filmed in Minnesota.

I guess living in the Fox bubble does cause a misunderstanding of what is really going on.  They deliberately try to deceive.

I would respond to Classic that Black Lives Matter's purpose is to end centuries of racist violence, not to continue racism.  Anifa's purpose is to counter racist demonstrations, not to promote racism.  As usual, you show a complete misunderstanding of your rivals motive.  It is easier to create straw men and rant against them.  Not much to do with reality.