(08-07-2020, 09:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that how Russia is interfering with the election as they did last time to reelect Trump, but that China...  

Well, China pretty much agrees with the Lincoln Project people that Trump stinks and that he ought to loose. They are saying it fairly openly using their official channels, but are not trying to be sneaky about it.  Can't say that they are wrong.  I'm mildly surprised there is no attachment by the intelligence deep state that China is correct.

(08-07-2020, 09:20 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 09:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that how Russia is interfering with the election as they did last time to reelect Trump, but that China...  

Well, China pretty much agrees with the Lincoln Project people that Trump stinks and that he ought to loose. They are saying it fairly openly using their official channels, but are not trying to be sneaky about it.  Can't say that they are wrong.  I'm mildly surprised there is no attachment by the intelligence deep state that China is correct.

The irony is that China may get away with less if Biden is President than if Trump is. Trump could simply be more reckless, and that may be far more dangerous to China than is a hard stance on Hong Kong and Taiwan.

(08-08-2020, 09:52 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 09:20 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-07-2020, 09:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP is reporting that how Russia is interfering with the election as they did last time to reelect Trump, but that China...  

Well, China pretty much agrees with the Lincoln Project people that Trump stinks and that he ought to loose. They are saying it fairly openly using their official channels, but are not trying to be sneaky about it.  Can't say that they are wrong.  I'm mildly surprised there is no attachment by the intelligence deep state that China is correct.

The irony is that China may get away with less if Biden is President than if Trump is. Trump could simply be more reckless, and that may be far more dangerous to China than is a hard stance on Hong Kong and Taiwan.

Perhaps China would rather have a sane and competent opposition rather than Trump focusing the attention on China's flawed handling of the virus to distract from his own mistakes?  At any rate, on this one subject I am sympathetic with China's opposition to Trump.

(08-08-2020, 09:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I really hate to bring up the infamous forgery that asserted that a small group of people has a conspiracy with which to dominate the world. Truth be told, if you want to achieve something, including economic gain, then don't rely upon a conspiracy to make it work. People who really get things done with excellence, people who run circles around us all without exploiting and degrading us are more likely to be described in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. To do extraordinary achievements in fields as disparate as painting, acting, sports, writing, music (composition or performance) or engineering one needs about ten thousand hours of early preparation before one reaches the necessary level of sublimity. The vast majority of people either get directed to something more banal out of economic necessity or don't get the chance. Can you imagine many parents allowing their kids to put four hours a day on a violin playing repetitive exercises? Few could tolerate that.  

10,000 hours is about the time it takes to become an attorney or physician or get a PhD. There is no cheap way around it these days. The high-achieving dilettante  is no more in a time in which practically everything not at a modest level of skill is banality. Maybe a machine paces the production or the clock paces driving a truck. It is noteworthy also for what one does not do. Musicians in first-tier orchestras are infamously immature at dating. That's 10,000 hours for you.

Conspiracies are comparatively easy to form. Even if they are devious they are usually scatter-brained efforts to do what others can't do, like deal drugs, pull off a terrorist act, or arrange a murder for hire.  Or perhaps a bungled coup in some unfortunate countries. But their scatter-brained character makes them easy to pursue after they do something horrible.

We have a President scatter-brained enough to think that he could get away with a conspiracy to murder American democracy.

(08-09-2020, 12:55 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-08-2020, 09:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I really hate to bring up the infamous forgery that asserted that a small group of people has a conspiracy with which to dominate the world. Truth be told, if you want to achieve something, including economic gain, then don't rely upon a conspiracy to make it work. People who really get things done with excellence, people who run circles around us all without exploiting and degrading us are more likely to be described in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. To do extraordinary achievements in fields as disparate as painting, acting, sports, writing, music (composition or performance) or engineering one needs about ten thousand hours of early preparation before one reaches the necessary level of sublimity. The vast majority of people either get directed to something more banal out of economic necessity or don't get the chance. Can you imagine many parents allowing their kids to put four hours a day on a violin playing repetitive exercises? Few could tolerate that.  

10,000 hours is about the time it takes to become an attorney or physician or get a PhD. There is no cheap way around it these days. The high-achieving dilettante  is no more in a time in which practically everything not at a modest level of skill is banality. Maybe a machine paces the production or the clock paces driving a truck. It is noteworthy also for what one does not do. Musicians in first-tier orchestras are infamously immature at dating. That's 10,000 hours for you.

Conspiracies are comparatively easy to form. Even if they are devious they are usually scatter-brained efforts to do what others can't do, like deal drugs, pull off a terrorist act, or arrange a murder for hire.  Or perhaps a bungled coup in some unfortunate countries. But their scatter-brained character makes them easy to pursue after they do something horrible.

We have a President scatter-brained enough to think that he could get away with a conspiracy to murder American democracy.

You do realize that Trump was elected. The day the Democratic party decided that it was a good idea to tie votes to government benefits and advancements and wealth is the day democracy died for you and everyone one on your side. I hope your ready for the advent of natural law because that's what's going to decide who ends up under what system down the road. Dude, if a baby doesn't matter them. What the fuck makes you think that you matter them. So, have fun living in hell before you die.

(08-09-2020, 01:49 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 12:55 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-08-2020, 09:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: .....
We have a President scatter-brained enough to think that he could get away with a conspiracy to murder American democracy.

You do realize that Trump was elected. The day the Democratic party decided that it was a good idea to tie votes to government benefits and advancements and wealth is the day democracy died for you and everyone one on your side. I hope your ready for the advent of natural law because that's what's going to decide who ends up under what system down the road...

Trump got a smaller share of the vote (45.93%) in 2016 than did...

Romney (47.15% in 2012)
Kerry (48.26% in 2004)
Ford (48.01% in 1976)  
Nixon (49.55% in 1960)


and not much better than McCain (45.60%) in 2008, Dukakis (45.65%) in 1988, or Dewey (45.89%) in 1944 -- all of whom lost in elections in which their opponent won 365 or more electoral votes.

Try to convince me that the election of Donald Trump wasn't a freak. 

...by the way -- if you wonder who gets the benefits, then it is white people who collect the vast majority of welfare, and that it is Appalachia, the Ozarks,  and the Deep South that have so many poor people eligible for welfare and disability benefits. Many such people are terribly under-educated... and poor, under-educated white people vote heavily for Trump.

(08-09-2020, 01:49 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Try to convince me that the election of Donald Trump wasn't a freak. 

(08-09-2020, 07:39 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP has protesters breaking into the police union building and setting it on fire.  

So much for peaceful protest?

(08-09-2020, 10:32 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 07:39 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP has protesters breaking into the police union building and setting it on fire.  

So much for peaceful protest?

If they find that the 'protestors' are really members of the actual protest, then Trump just got handed campaign material beyond his dreams.  If, on the other hand, they determine that the 'protestors' are outside agitators, the opposite occurs.  I assume that both the authorities and the protest leaders are working this very hard.

(08-09-2020, 01:49 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 12:55 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-08-2020, 09:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I really hate to bring up the infamous forgery that asserted that a small group of people has a conspiracy with which to dominate the world. Truth be told, if you want to achieve something, including economic gain, then don't rely upon a conspiracy to make it work. People who really get things done with excellence, people who run circles around us all without exploiting and degrading us are more likely to be described in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. To do extraordinary achievements in fields as disparate as painting, acting, sports, writing, music (composition or performance) or engineering one needs about ten thousand hours of early preparation before one reaches the necessary level of sublimity. The vast majority of people either get directed to something more banal out of economic necessity or don't get the chance. Can you imagine many parents allowing their kids to put four hours a day on a violin playing repetitive exercises? Few could tolerate that.  

10,000 hours is about the time it takes to become an attorney or physician or get a PhD. There is no cheap way around it these days. The high-achieving dilettante  is no more in a time in which practically everything not at a modest level of skill is banality. Maybe a machine paces the production or the clock paces driving a truck. It is noteworthy also for what one does not do. Musicians in first-tier orchestras are infamously immature at dating. That's 10,000 hours for you.

Conspiracies are comparatively easy to form. Even if they are devious they are usually scatter-brained efforts to do what others can't do, like deal drugs, pull off a terrorist act, or arrange a murder for hire.  Or perhaps a bungled coup in some unfortunate countries. But their scatter-brained character makes them easy to pursue after they do something horrible.

We have a President scatter-brained enough to think that he could get away with a conspiracy to murder American democracy.

You do realize that Trump was elected. The day the Democratic party decided that it was a good idea to tie votes to government benefits and advancements and wealth is the day democracy died for you and everyone one on your side. I hope your ready for the advent of natural law because that's what's going to decide who ends up under what system down the road. Dude, if a baby doesn't matter them. What the fuck makes you think that you matter them. So, have fun living in hell before you die.

Trump got a smaller share of the vote (45.93%) in 2016 than did...

Romney (47.15% in 2012)
Kerry (48.26% in 2004)
Ford (48.01% in 1976)  
Nixon (49.55% in 1960)


and not much better than McCain (45.60%) in 2008, Dukakis (45.65%) in 198, or Dewey (45.89%) in 1944 -- all of whom lost in elections in which their opponent won 365 or more electoral votes.

Try to convince me that the election of Donald Trump wasn't a freak. 

...by the way -- if you wonder who gets the benefits, then it is white people who collect the vast majority of welfare, and that it is Appalachia, the Ozarks,  and the Deep South that have so many poor people eligible for welfare and disability benefits. Many such people are terribly under-educated... and poor, under-educated white people vote heavily for Trump.

(08-09-2020, 02:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You must think that we live in a country like France or Germany where democracy alone determines it's national leaders and priorities.  Guess what, we don't live in a country that's set up like either of them. Here's what we are going do eventually, we are eventually going to boot a blue state or two or some blue cities from the American union and see what happens to them.

(08-09-2020, 12:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 10:32 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 07:39 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP has protesters breaking into the police union building and setting it on fire.  

So much for peaceful protest?

If they find that the 'protestors' are really members of the actual protest, then Trump just got handed campaign material beyond his dreams.  If, on the other hand, they determine that the 'protestors' are outside agitators, the opposite occurs.  I assume that both the authorities and the protest leaders are working this very hard.

Possibly so. According to Lichtman, though, such "social unrest" reflects badly on the incumbent party.

(08-09-2020, 12:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 10:32 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 07:39 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The AP has protesters breaking into the police union building and setting it on fire.  

So much for peaceful protest?

If they find that the 'protestors' are really members of the actual protest, then Trump just got handed campaign material beyond his dreams.  If, on the other hand, they determine that the 'protestors' are outside agitators, the opposite occurs.  I assume that both the authorities and the protest leaders are working this very hard.

Possibly so. According to Lichtman, though, such "social unrest" reflects badly on the incumbent party.

(08-09-2020, 03:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 02:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You must think that we live in a country like France or Germany where democracy alone determines it's national leaders and priorities.  Guess what, we don't live in a country that's set up like either of them. Here's what we are going do eventually, we are eventually going to boot a blue state or two or some blue cities from the American union and see what happens to them.

Meanwhile, here on Earth One, a lot of formerly red people are turning blue.

You ought to check every once in a while against reality before you start sharing daydreams.

(08-09-2020, 02:14 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 01:49 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-09-2020, 12:55 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-08-2020, 09:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I really hate to bring up the infamous forgery that asserted that a small group of people has a conspiracy with which to dominate the world. Truth be told, if you want to achieve something, including economic gain, then don't rely upon a conspiracy to make it work. People who really get things done with excellence, people who run circles around us all without exploiting and degrading us are more likely to be described in Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers. To do extraordinary achievements in fields as disparate as painting, acting, sports, writing, music (composition or performance) or engineering one needs about ten thousand hours of early preparation before one reaches the necessary level of sublimity. The vast majority of people either get directed to something more banal out of economic necessity or don't get the chance. Can you imagine many parents allowing their kids to put four hours a day on a violin playing repetitive exercises? Few could tolerate that.  

10,000 hours is about the time it takes to become an attorney or physician or get a PhD. There is no cheap way around it these days. The high-achieving dilettante  is no more in a time in which practically everything not at a modest level of skill is banality. Maybe a machine paces the production or the clock paces driving a truck. It is noteworthy also for what one does not do. Musicians in first-tier orchestras are infamously immature at dating. That's 10,000 hours for you.

Conspiracies are comparatively easy to form. Even if they are devious they are usually scatter-brained efforts to do what others can't do, like deal drugs, pull off a terrorist act, or arrange a murder for hire.  Or perhaps a bungled coup in some unfortunate countries. But their scatter-brained character makes them easy to pursue after they do something horrible.

We have a President scatter-brained enough to think that he could get away with a conspiracy to murder American democracy.

You do realize that Trump was elected. The day the Democratic party decided that it was a good idea to tie votes to government benefits and advancements and wealth is the day democracy died for you and everyone one on your side. I hope your ready for the advent of natural law because that's what's going to decide who ends up under what system down the road. Dude, if a baby doesn't matter them. What the fuck makes you think that you matter them. So, have fun living in hell before you die.

Trump got a smaller share of the vote (45.93%) in 2016 than did...

Romney (47.15% in 2012)
Kerry (48.26% in 2004)
Ford (48.01% in 1976)  
Nixon (49.55% in 1960)


and not much better than McCain (45.60%) in 2008, Dukakis (45.65%) in 198, or Dewey (45.89%) in 1944 -- all of whom lost in elections in which their opponent won 365 or more electoral votes.

Try to convince me that the election of Donald Trump wasn't a freak. 

...by the way -- if you wonder who gets the benefits, then it is white people who collect the vast majority of welfare, and that it is Appalachia, the Ozarks,  and the Deep South that have so many poor people eligible for welfare and disability benefits. Many such people are terribly under-educated... and poor, under-educated white people vote heavily for Trump.

Yes, Trump's election was a modern day miracle of sorts but I wasn't completely surprised by the outcome. You must think that we live in a country like France or Germany where democracy alone determines it's national leaders and priorities.  Guess what, we don't live in a country that's set up like either of them. Here's what we are going do eventually, we are eventually going to boot a blue state or two or some blue cities from the American union and see what happens to them. You think that's  funny or impossible just wait a few more years when the economic fallout and the issues start really heating up. I've heard that Detroit has a strong police force that has the authority to deal with shit that Minneapolis doesn't have today. I guess Detroit ain't that liberal after all or at least that's what the police chief seems to be telling us.

Quote:You've already dug a hole to deep to crawl out of with your own stupidity. I'm not guilty of you being born with a mental disorder that affects your judgement or guilty of preventing you from voting even though you shouldn't be voting for many reasons. You know what's good for you and know what day it is  and so forth and I suppose that's good enough to retain your right to vote. Do you know how many arrogant government workers who think/thought they're all that that I reminded or taught to check their liberal attitude while in the presence of a US Taxpayer who has the right to vote to defund/fire every fucking one of them. Dude, if OK to fire police forces because a white cop fucked up then its ok to fire Democratic voters/politician who fuck too. I don't know who taught you and every other blue fool that America is a one way street but you are going to learn that America is a two way street with equal rules that can be applied so get ready for Democrat's to learn what its like to be an American worker these days and know how it feels to loose a cozy blue government job and all the benefits associated with it.  We've seen your liberal government dude and when we decide to get rid of your government there isn't a thing that you and the other liberals here are going to be able to do about it or stop it from occurring.

Quote:I know the majority on welfare recipients are white people like you and others here but that doesn't seem to matter to Eric who seems to think that I think welfare is only distributed to a bunch of minorities and calls me a racist for opposing more of it and expansions of it to include white people like him (deadbeats) and funding more social workers to address problems with people that only God or a miracle or a major advancement in DNA related science can fix.

Quote:Like I said, the day a group of Democrats decided that it was a good idea to buy votes with our tax dollar was the day democracy died for you and every other worthless fool who deserves to live/ die under a ruthless liberal dictator like Hitler. Personally, I don't really care if Hitler executes you as a means to control costs or enslaves blacks or illegal aliens as a means to increase profit. Eric talks about relying on cheap Mexicans/ immigrants  to fix stuff as he's speaking to a highly skilled  American tradesman who owns an American business and then tells me that he's entitled to a portion of it's profit. You want to know what I do with Eric, I'd put a gun to his head and ask him where he got that stupid liberal idea from and pull the trigger. Like I said, the Democrats better wise up and start changing their attitudes before killing Democrats is legal again. Dude, my views of the Confederates would have been the same as yours during the American Civil War. I hear a lot about a social contract relating to the Democrats that I don't remember signing.

Quote:So, why does the Democratic party have it's own version of our electoral college built in to its electoral process. Is that a sign of progress to you or a sign of a country run by a political party with a popular that isn't up to par with the rest of the United States in terms of education and so forth? The Liberals can say what they want about the Americans who don't vote for them or support what they want who spend the bulk of their time praising each other and telling each other how smart and how great they are and so forth when the other side knows better and knows its smarter and knows that they're literally on borrowed time at this moment.