(08-29-2020, 02:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The cops don't have a license or the freedom to pull someone over and kill them for any reason. Our cops aren't a bunch of gangsters.

(08-29-2020, 02:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 04:23 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-28-2020, 10:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-28-2020, 09:25 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-28-2020, 07:28 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: He's running on the same platform as he did back in 2016 with the support of the Republican party. What do you have to offer the black and Hispanic voters who want something more than the party of the third world has to offer these days? I must say, selling the same old shit time after time must pay pretty well.

You can on the positive side promote democracy, human rights and equality.  On the less abstract level, you can stop murdering them.  The Republicans, some of them, do not want to do this.  Years of oppression has become a habit.  The do not want to stop their assumption of superiority or grant what they take for granted for themselves.

In short, we were bred to see us and them and oppress them.  If conservatives want so badly to oppress, is it a wonder that their values are going kapt?

I don't care what the Democrats pass, as long as we have black citizens and police, we are going to have some incidents between some black people and cops that result in death.

Why do you say this?

Quote:I think Tucker Carlson said that we had about eight incidents that occurred across the entire country last year. I'm sorry but that ain't much of a problem in my opinion considering twice as many were killed by each other in Chicago last weekend.

I don't trust Tucker Carlson as a reporter; he is biased.

By quantity, this may not seem like much of a problem, if your figures are right. But it happens often enough that blacks are afraid to walk the streets for fear of being killed by police. Also, racial profiling causes many to be pulled over, and the fear that they may be shot or otherwise hurt or killed is always there. And this is threatening, damaging and hurtful to black people. Because of this, black people are angry and on edge about these frequent and continuing incidents.

The way I look at it, if police can pull over and kill somebody for no reason, as happens to many black people, that is a violation of my rights. Chief of Staff Mark Meadows said this week on PBS that he is not black, so he can't relate to how black people feel about this threat. But that just shows racial bias. We are all human beings, so it is not hard to relate to the threat of being stopped and killed by police for no reason. And it happens to whites too, as Michael Bell personally related about his son in 2004 in Kenosha tonight on Democracy Now. If police can do this, and get away with it (as they have usually done up until now), then I am concerned that we might live in a police state. Many share my concern.

Quote:You don't know shit. All you know is what the new popular trend on the Democratic side is and which bandwagon you're supposed to jump on and fully support at this point. Personally, I don't think the uppity black mayor of Chicago really cares about the ghetto blacks. I think she places herself and her wife and her wealthier liberal neighbors above them in importance as she lectures us and blames us for not caring about them as much as she, her wife  and her neighbors care about them. Fuck her.

Political alliances are necessary in order to accomplish anything. So white liberals and black liberals must join together and work together and support each other's aims and concerns in order to win. And a liberal philosophy joins us together in mutual understanding.

The cops don't have a license or the freedom to pull someone over and kill them for any reason. Our cops aren't a bunch of gangsters. You often portray them that way but they aren't that way at all. Dude, every time you open that dumb WHITE mouth of yours and talk like you're some dumb street nigger/cracker who doesn't seem to know any better than they hear from some dumb street slug/ deadbeat or seem to care about anything important who doesn't seem to have an understanding of values, sense of values or a sense of morality, all you do is lower yourself and decrease your importance (value) and influence further in the eyes of those who do, like you and your politicians are doing right now.

Quote:Now, if you want to refute then go ahead and refute as I continue to do what I can do here or any where else in this country as I'm proving every day. How long did it take me to reverse the course and completely turn the tables, eliminate your protections and turn liberal into a bad word. About a year or two maybe? So, what was the odds of someone like me coming in green and being able to shift/swing/disrupt/disorganize a rather large liberal website and force the hand of an absent forum owner. Like I said, you are talking to an old American rebel/ liberator/ defender who will blow your head off and terrorize your politicians if we have to go there and I hope Barrack Obama and Nancy Pelosi are reading this because fair is fair in our country and she isn't immune and neither is Barrack or his beautiful wife. Two can play the same game as Trump has proven and if liberal based shit ( I don't care how ugly or pretty or sexy or wealthy or how well educated the liberal shit is these days) continues then they're going to have to accept the consequences of being directly associated with all the liberal shit that we see and accept personal financial responsibility for all of it. I'm sorry but the Liberals are the only people I know that can make millions of dollars talking shit out their ass and any business who listens to them, bends to their will or goes along with them deserves to lose millions/billions of dollars.

(08-29-2020, 02:10 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 02:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The cops don't have a license or the freedom to pull someone over and kill them for any reason. Our cops aren't a bunch of gangsters.

Unfortunately, a few of them are.  In some parts of the country, the police immunity from prosecution coupled with the lynching tradition of racist suppression is still in place.  This isn't going to stand in an age where cameras are common.  If you were willing to punt the racist tradition, to avoid defending or denying racism, it would be less painful for you.  Some parts of the existing culture well deserve to die.

(08-29-2020, 02:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You guys have turned liberal into a dirty word for 40 years or more, but we're still here and we might win this time. Ya just neva know, man!

You guys have imposed a trillions of dollars in debt on the USA, with the expressed purpose of preventing government spending for social and welfare programs that help people of color. So you guys are the ones who may find yourselves paying the bill when we raise taxes on you, which is the only prudent thing to do.

(08-29-2020, 02:10 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 02:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The cops don't have a license or the freedom to pull someone over and kill them for any reason. Our cops aren't a bunch of gangsters.

Unfortunately, a few of them are.  In some parts of the country, the police immunity from prosecution coupled with the lynching tradition of racist suppression is still in place.  This isn't going to stand in an age where cameras are common.  If you were willing to punt the racist tradition, to avoid defending or denying racism, it would be less painful for you.  Some parts of the existing culture well deserve to die.

(08-29-2020, 02:49 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 02:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 04:23 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-28-2020, 10:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-28-2020, 09:25 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: You can on the positive side promote democracy, human rights and equality.  On the less abstract level, you can stop murdering them.  The Republicans, some of them, do not want to do this.  Years of oppression has become a habit.  The do not want to stop their assumption of superiority or grant what they take for granted for themselves.

In short, we were bred to see us and them and oppress them.  If conservatives want so badly to oppress, is it a wonder that their values are going kapt?

I don't care what the Democrats pass, as long as we have black citizens and police, we are going to have some incidents between some black people and cops that result in death.

Why do you say this?

Quote:I think Tucker Carlson said that we had about eight incidents that occurred across the entire country last year. I'm sorry but that ain't much of a problem in my opinion considering twice as many were killed by each other in Chicago last weekend.

I don't trust Tucker Carlson as a reporter; he is biased.

By quantity, this may not seem like much of a problem, if your figures are right. But it happens often enough that blacks are afraid to walk the streets for fear of being killed by police. Also, racial profiling causes many to be pulled over, and the fear that they may be shot or otherwise hurt or killed is always there. And this is threatening, damaging and hurtful to black people. Because of this, black people are angry and on edge about these frequent and continuing incidents.

The way I look at it, if police can pull over and kill somebody for no reason, as happens to many black people, that is a violation of my rights. Chief of Staff Mark Meadows said this week on PBS that he is not black, so he can't relate to how black people feel about this threat. But that just shows racial bias. We are all human beings, so it is not hard to relate to the threat of being stopped and killed by police for no reason. And it happens to whites too, as Michael Bell personally related about his son in 2004 in Kenosha tonight on Democracy Now. If police can do this, and get away with it (as they have usually done up until now), then I am concerned that we might live in a police state. Many share my concern.

Quote:You don't know shit. All you know is what the new popular trend on the Democratic side is and which bandwagon you're supposed to jump on and fully support at this point. Personally, I don't think the uppity black mayor of Chicago really cares about the ghetto blacks. I think she places herself and her wife and her wealthier liberal neighbors above them in importance as she lectures us and blames us for not caring about them as much as she, her wife  and her neighbors care about them. Fuck her.

Political alliances are necessary in order to accomplish anything. So white liberals and black liberals must join together and work together and support each other's aims and concerns in order to win. And a liberal philosophy joins us together in mutual understanding.

The cops don't have a license or the freedom to pull someone over and kill them for any reason. Our cops aren't a bunch of gangsters. You often portray them that way but they aren't that way at all. Dude, every time you open that dumb WHITE mouth of yours and talk like you're some dumb street nigger/cracker who doesn't seem to know any better than they hear from some dumb street slug/ deadbeat or seem to care about anything important who doesn't seem to have an understanding of values, sense of values or a sense of morality, all you do is lower yourself and decrease your importance (value) and influence further in the eyes of those who do, like you and your politicians are doing right now.

ha ha! I am a cool hip dude and I talk "like a dumb street nigger." I can rap too! A much better morality than pro-confederate fascism, which you espouse. I'll take it!

Quote:Now, if you want to refute then go ahead and refute as I continue to do what I can do here or any where else in this country as I'm proving every day. How long did it take me to reverse the course and completely turn the tables, eliminate your protections and turn liberal into a bad word. About a year or two maybe? So, what was the odds of someone like me coming in green and being able to shift/swing/disrupt/disorganize a rather large liberal website and force the hand of an absent forum owner. Like I said, you are talking to an old American rebel/ liberator/ defender who will blow your head off and terrorize your politicians if we have to go there and I hope Barrack Obama and Nancy Pelosi are reading this because fair is fair in our country and she isn't immune and neither is Barrack or his beautiful wife. Two can play the same game as Trump has proven and if liberal based shit ( I don't care how ugly or pretty or sexy or wealthy or how well educated the liberal shit is these days) continues then they're going to have to accept the consequences of being directly associated with all the liberal shit that we see and accept personal financial responsibility for all of it. I'm sorry but the Liberals are the only people I know that can make millions of dollars talking shit out their ass and any business who listens to them, bends to their will or goes along with them deserves to lose millions/billions of dollars.

You guys have turned liberal into a dirty word for 40 years or more, but we're still here and we might win this time. Ya just neva know, man!

You guys have imposed a trillions of dollars in debt on the USA, with the expressed purpose of preventing government spending for social and welfare programs that help people of color. So you guys are the ones who may find yourselves paying the bill when we raise taxes on you, which is the only prudent thing to do.

(08-29-2020, 05:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm sure you're cool with anything hip that's related to pop culture. You have to be able to relate to young people since that seems to be your primary market of interest.

(08-29-2020, 03:17 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We'll always have some bad apples. You should know that by now. You should also know that blaming all for the action of one is wrong as well.

(08-29-2020, 07:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The Classic Xers of our country do not have the sense of solidarity or community with the country at large. This guy Wade Davis presents a stunning and compassionate rebuttal to the Classic Xer/Republican philosophy: that having a common interest in the country rather than looking on social programs and necessary collective action as weakness and lack of freedom, is the reason for the current decline of the USA and the rapid approach of the end of the American era.

It is obvious to me, as Wade Davis says, that it was not the era of the Grateful Dead that has brought about this corrosive emphasis on self-reliance, but the era of Ronald Reagan to Donald Trump. And this decade we have the chance and the challenge to reverse this decline and inequality, and restart progress; in which case the USA can continue to be a positive influence in the world as we had been before Reagan; as we were in the days of Lincoln and FDR.

Interesting that the word "Unravelling" is first up in describing this video, since what we know as the Unravelling or 3T was the time when this self-reliance Reaganomics trickle-down policy was most dominant.

Our 4T is the cold civil war. One side must win, or achieve political dominance and/or forge a new consensus of social democracy, or we will fail as a nation and in this 4T.

(08-29-2020, 08:22 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: But didn’t so many of us at the time drink the Reagan Kool-Aid?  So many of us felt that RWR was the best thing to come along since sliced bread. Another way of saying that we have met the enemy and it is us?

(08-29-2020, 07:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The Classic Xers of our country do not have the sense of solidarity or community with the country at large. This guy Wade Davis presents a stunning and compassionate rebuttal to the Classic Xer/Republican philosophy: that having a common interest in the country rather than looking on social programs and necessary collective action as weakness and lack of freedom, is the reason for the current decline of the USA and the rapid approach of the end of the American era.

It is obvious to me, as Wade Davis says, that it was not the era of the Grateful Dead that has brought about this corrosive emphasis on self-reliance, but the era of Ronald Reagan to Donald Trump. And this decade we have the chance and the challenge to reverse this decline and inequality, and restart progress; in which case the USA can continue to be a positive influence in the world as we had been before Reagan; as we were in the days of Lincoln and FDR.

Interesting that the word "Unravelling" is first up in describing this video, since what we know as the Unravelling or 3T was the time when this self-reliance Reaganomics trickle-down policy was most dominant.

Our 4T is the cold civil war. One side must win, or achieve political dominance and/or forge a new consensus of social democracy, or we will fail as a nation and in this 4T.

(08-29-2020, 10:37 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 08:22 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: But didn’t so many of us at the time drink the Reagan Kool-Aid?  So many of us felt that RWR was the best thing to come along since sliced bread. Another way of saying that we have met the enemy and it is us?

Well, I never felt that way. I was not grateful for THAT bread. But then, I was a CA teenager when he was elected governor in 1966. I met the enemy then, and he wasn't me.

Us Bay Area boomers, don'tcha know, couldn't vote and we hated him. But we grew up and helped turn the whole Bay Area deep blue. We almost swung the state for McGovern. We hoped we could turn the whole country blue too, but, we weren't typical of Classic Xer's Amerika.

(08-29-2020, 07:58 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 03:17 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We'll always have some bad apples. You should know that by now. You should also know that blaming all for the action of one is wrong as well.

There are likely more good cops than bad.  In order to have law and order you need good cops.

With the KKK and Neo Nazi you get Antifa.  I like the violence about as much as I like the bad cops.  But how do you make them all go away?

With the Black Lives Matter movement come the Boogaloo Bois.  I am for the first, but against the last.  But you will always have some bad apples?  Do you shrug and accept that?  Or do you demonstrate that the combination of democracy and capitalism can still work.

If you are going to invite in the militia, you will get insane teenagers who commit murder with long arms.  Oh, well.  We'll always have bad apples?  What are a few murders here and there?

The elites don't employ violence.  Instead they buy politicians.  The effect is vaguely the same.  One group gets resources and status over another.  Us and them.

I have noted how humans evolved during the hunter gatherer period.  Violence and oppression of other groups was cost effective.  As a result we have an instinct to divide people into us and them and kill, oppress, and take resources from them.  All of the above can stand as examples.  Every one of them.  Bad cops, the KKK, the Neo Nazi, Antifa, the Boogallo Bois, the Trump loyalists, the elites, all of them.  You divide people and oppress those who are not like you with violence.

I have noted that since the Information Age, somewhere between the invention of machine guns to the creation of nukes, violence became a non cost effective way of solving problems.  Many have come to the conclusion that violence is a last resort, that you exhaust all other means before you fall back on it.  Insurgent proxy wars and nukes will do that.  Machine guns will do that.  Heck, even a sharp knife will do that.

But some people still let their hunter gatherer genes take over.  If you are obsessed enough with violence, you might say good.  There always will be bad apples.  There will always be us and them.  Live with it.  We are a violent species.  Live with it.  If you won't, eat lead.  I am better than you at violence.  Me us, you them.  Eat lead and die.

Fourth Turnings are a time when a few of the greatest problems facing the culture are eliminated.  Kings.  Colonial imperialism.  Slaves.  Dictators.  Now racist violent policing as well as much of systematic prejudice has risen to the top.  COVID has risen to the top.  All of the groups that are enthralled by violence to achieve status, wealth or power have risen near the top.  Global warming has risen at least to the level of campaign promises, but it is a bit early to celebrate that one.

Thus, I am not impressed by an obsessed with violence advocate of the old values.  In a new birth of freedom, violence may become necessary.  With or without violence, it has always been the side favoring equality, democracy, human rights and I may as well include justice that comes up on top.  It will be less necessary to revert to violence in an age where non violence and legislation are the more common way to transform the culture.

I know you are obsessed with violence.  A lot of conservatives that are attracted to S&H are.  The idea that lots of violence comes every four score and seven years attracts people who are close to their hunter gatherer passions.  Like Game of Thrones suggested, it is time to break the wheel.  It is time for this to stop.  It is time for a crisis in some ways more profound than the more violent prior crises.

Not that we are there yet.  There are other unresolved issues, a need for more transformational turnings.  Limiting population may be in the on deck circle.

But this one will be sufficient.

(08-30-2020, 04:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm not obsessed with violence...

(08-30-2020, 04:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 07:58 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-29-2020, 03:17 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: We'll always have some bad apples. You should know that by now. You should also know that blaming all for the action of one is wrong as well.

There are likely more good cops than bad.  In order to have law and order you need good cops.

With the KKK and Neo Nazi you get Antifa.  I like the violence about as much as I like the bad cops.  But how do you make them all go away?

With the Black Lives Matter movement come the Boogaloo Bois.  I am for the first, but against the last.  But you will always have some bad apples?  Do you shrug and accept that?  Or do you demonstrate that the combination of democracy and capitalism can still work.

If you are going to invite in the militia, you will get insane teenagers who commit murder with long arms.  Oh, well.  We'll always have bad apples?  What are a few murders here and there?

The elites don't employ violence.  Instead they buy politicians.  The effect is vaguely the same.  One group gets resources and status over another.  Us and them.

I have noted how humans evolved during the hunter gatherer period.  Violence and oppression of other groups was cost effective.  As a result we have an instinct to divide people into us and them and kill, oppress, and take resources from them.  All of the above can stand as examples.  Every one of them.  Bad cops, the KKK, the Neo Nazi, Antifa, the Boogallo Bois, the Trump loyalists, the elites, all of them.  You divide people and oppress those who are not like you with violence.

I have noted that since the Information Age, somewhere between the invention of machine guns to the creation of nukes, violence became a non cost effective way of solving problems.  Many have come to the conclusion that violence is a last resort, that you exhaust all other means before you fall back on it.  Insurgent proxy wars and nukes will do that.  Machine guns will do that.  Heck, even a sharp knife will do that.

But some people still let their hunter gatherer genes take over.  If you are obsessed enough with violence, you might say good.  There always will be bad apples.  There will always be us and them.  Live with it.  We are a violent species.  Live with it.  If you won't, eat lead.  I am better than you at violence.  Me us, you them.  Eat lead and die.

Fourth Turnings are a time when a few of the greatest problems facing the culture are eliminated.  Kings.  Colonial imperialism.  Slaves.  Dictators.  Now racist violent policing as well as much of systematic prejudice has risen to the top.  COVID has risen to the top.  All of the groups that are enthralled by violence to achieve status, wealth or power have risen near the top.  Global warming has risen at least to the level of campaign promises, but it is a bit early to celebrate that one.

Thus, I am not impressed by an obsessed with violence advocate of the old values.  In a new birth of freedom, violence may become necessary.  With or without violence, it has always been the side favoring equality, democracy, human rights and I may as well include justice that comes up on top.  It will be less necessary to revert to violence in an age where non violence and legislation are the more common way to transform the culture.

I know you are obsessed with violence.  A lot of conservatives that are attracted to S&H are.  The idea that lots of violence comes every four score and seven years attracts people who are close to their hunter gatherer passions.  Like Game of Thrones suggested, it is time to break the wheel.  It is time for this to stop.  It is time for a crisis in some ways more profound than the more violent prior crises.

Not that we are there yet.  There are other unresolved issues, a need for more transformational turnings.  Limiting population may be in the on deck circle.

But this one will be sufficient.

I'm not obsessed with violence but I can see more of it coming and so can most of the country which is why people are arming up. I've heard there's two million more gun owners than there was before all  the violence started. If you want to stick with wishful thinking and continue blaming racism for what we've seen so far it's alright with me but it's most likely not going to help you at the polls in November.

(08-30-2020, 08:12 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-30-2020, 04:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm not obsessed with violence...

You don't think so?  Try not regularly threatening others with violence.  I am doubtful that you are capable of refraining yourself.

(08-30-2020, 11:22 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Classic X'er, I have seen copious talk of nebulous violence from you. Americans are becoming less tolerant of racist, religious, homophobic, and domestic violence. Even executions are becoming rarer. (OK, one contributing factor to that is that police have bulletproof vests and get an edge in a shoot-out. Crooks used to pull a gun on a cop while fleeing a lawful arrest and shot the cop in the heart or lungs, killing the cop... but doing so now causes the bullet to bound off the bullet-proof vest and the cop gets a shot at the offender's heart or chest and then empties his revolver upon the dying offender. If the crook tries to shoot the cop in the face, then the cop shoots the perp in the chest before the crook can aim for the unprotected face or head  Technically that is police brutality, but if it is a choice between someone who pulls a gun on a cop dying in an electric chair or being killed in the field, I prefer that the cop survive).

You make it sound as if gun owners are all anti-liberal people set on defending themselves from some left-wing nightmare. You are wrong. Most gun owners are sport hunters, and those are generally well-behaved people. They own expensive, high-powered, highly-accurate rifles. Well-behaved, all right -- unless you are "Bambi" or some game bird. Many of the guns are in possession of gun collectors who are more interested in antique firearms for their beauty than for their fire-power. Sure, an AK-47, and Uzi, or an AR-15 may be beautiful for its firepower, but nothing else, and if a collector has any of those he needs only one. They have their historical roles. Those collectors may have plenty of muskets grossly obsolete as military weapons or criminal arms. It would be easy to fashion gun-control legislation that leaves their deer rifle or their antique collection alone. 

If you are scared of Black Lives Matters -- then at least recognize its narrow purpose of making police forces more responsible in treating African-American suspects right. The right way to deal with an African-American suspect is the same as dealing with a white suspect: overpower the alleged offender, put the offender in lawful custody, and let the legal system do its work. Should the offender have breathing problems, then the suspect goes to the hospital for treatment. Black Lives Matters does not have a purpose of allowing black people to get away with crime for having been deprived in youth or having had ancestors 'oppressed' in slavery or Jim Crow practice. There are good people in the most dreadful ghettos, and black crooks usually victimize such people if they get the chance. Black Lives Matters clearly does not ask for black people to get any 'race card' that gets them out of jail free. I am for law and order (which explains my disdain for drugs, homophobia, and sex crimes), but not for inexcusable manifestations of police brutality. Yes, self-defense, however inexcusable, is as brutal as inexcusable crime that it is intended to thwart. 

If you want to know what the real brutality in the human soul is, then just look to the neo-Nazi and neo-Klan (the distinction between the Klan and neo-Nazis is at most style). We all know what Nazis did, and anyone affecting Nazi symbols and ideology connects himself to confiscations of assets, torture chambers, shooting pits, concentration camps, and fake showers that dispense Zyklon-B. Because Klan groups share the same hatreds as Nazis and have a known proclivity for murderous violence, I can easily imagine Kluxists doing much the same thing. Those who shout "Jews will not replace us!" -- as far as that goes, I wish that Jews really would replace them. (Jews have the decency to recognize Harvey Weinstein, Bernie Madoff, and Jeffrey Epstein as rogues worthy of hatred much as I as a German-American see John Dillinger as a rogue deserving of hatred).

(08-30-2020, 12:35 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(08-30-2020, 08:12 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-30-2020, 04:40 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm not obsessed with violence...

You don't think so?  Try not regularly threatening others with violence.  I am doubtful that you are capable of refraining yourself.

You don't like warnings. You don't view giving warnings as a good/nice gesture. You don't prefer to give or receive warnings in advance. Are you a terrorist or some kind of radical?