(09-03-2020, 02:57 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 01:36 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Evidently, race still matters more and racism is still a bigger concern and a major driving force on Earth 1 than Earth 2. I think Biden summed up the situation on Earth 1 pretty good when he told a black man that he would no longer be viewed as a black man if he supported the President of Earth 2 and basically loose entitlements and special protections related to his race if he were to side or be forced to pack up and move to Earth 2 where no racial identities or racial protections exist because Earth 2 is exclusively American these days. So, how much money are your political and economic elites paying, promising to pay violent groups like Antifa and Black Lives Matter to leave Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard and Manhattan alone for now these days? Any idea? I see all kinds of foolish legislation that would either hamper, restrict and completely eliminate capabilities of law enforcement. I'm going to ask you a question, do you believe that America wouldn't unite, adjust the rules (lower its standards enough and remove legal protection) for American society to directly engage with criminals and completely crush an old French or old Russian like style revolt. If you do, you should pay more attention and become more familiar with American history and the values that the bulk of Americans still hold dear and will slaughter millions of left wingers to pass them on to the American generations of the next century. I hope the Democratic party is able to pay the bills for all the damage that we are seeing in America now and all the American business's that are being destroyed now and all the costs associated with their war with the people of the United States when this war is over?

There were protests in places like Boston and New York City.  They just did not go as violent.  The areas are too blue.  I think there were too many people involved to bribe without the bribes being leaked to the press.  Thus, it was more that there was no red rural area around.  The racist violent police murdering folks and the Trump faction people stirring up violence are just found more out in the mid west and west, near the red rural areas.  That is a far larger factor than any imaginary bribes that you make up.  Bribes between elites and politicians?  Sure.  I believe that.  There are a smaller number of people involved.  Bribing a group like the Boogaloo Bois?  Unlikely.

I am not worried about violent revolts as long as one major party is listening.  If the government does not listen to the people, sure.  I still have a feeling that the Chinese Communist Party and places like Belarus are going to lose it eventually, but don’t see it as immanent.  The spirals of rhetoric and violence are there, but not escalating that strongly yet.  In America, with one party listening to the people rather than trying to use violence to maintain the racist status quo, there is much more hope of a non violent solution.

The red violence in the rural areas?  We will deal with it in time.

Again, Antifa has served it’s purpose.  The were anti fascists, the natural opposition to the KKK and Neo Nazi.  Once Black Lives Matter took off, Antifa’s mission was accomplished.  The KKK and Neo Nazi went poof.  I am aware that the motives of the Boogaloo Bois are being shifted in the red propaganda to Antifa.  I am also aware that some people call the Boogaloo Bois a right wing group, though they are so far right to stand for entirely different ideals than either the red or blue factions.  But really, they are frustrated by the racist violent police murders and lately by the Trump crowd.  If the reds are looking for violence, the Bois will use them, the people be damned.  Again, they should be well targeted by the good cops and renounced as Biden has done all violent groups.

On Earth One, one major problem is that some reds want to practice racism.  There is an opposition to the racists, not a war like there is on Earth Two.  Mind you, I am talking real racism.  I am talking about people wanting to see power distributed more or less as the population indicates, not reserving powerful jobs to white males.  Redefinition and double speak is not any sort of answer.

(09-04-2020, 01:52 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Antifa is still serving it's purpose and causing all kinds of trouble and even forced the Democratic mayor of Portland to leave his home (condo located inside the xity) the other night. It's a good thing he's privileged and has another home to flee to and reside in these days. Evidently, the governor of Oregon doesn't view that as a big deal. I mean lives in a state mansion located in Salem with a detachment of state police and private security and the head of the Oregon National on speed dial. I wonder if the head of the national guard is an American believer (Trump supporter) or as warped and out of touch as him? I view it as typical for a liberal Democrat or Liberal puppet myself. 

Also, the Antifa guy with a BLM tattoo on his neck who murdered the so called evil right winger in cold blood is out on bail thanks to Liberal donations to create a Liberal slush fund to pay the bail of rioters who are caught breaking the law and he's  doing an interview on Vice (HBO documentary series) which you may want to watch to learn what one of your sides heroes has to say about murdering one of ours. Oh, I sure justice will be served and someone will find that piece of shit hero  yours floating in some river or hopefully  his head on a spike in front of some Democrats home or office or some rich Democratic supporters home or office. Fair is fair. Aren't you the one that's telling me words don't mean what they mean in the dictionary and the one flip flopping between me and the other liberal supporters. Sooner or later, the reddish Democrats are going to be forced to choose the side that more closely represents their beliefs and values these day.

(09-03-2020, 02:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And I hope some people see through the obvious racial bias of folks like you Classic Xer who have no concern over the USA turning into a police state, especially in black neighborhoods, but focus all your concern on keeping the police trained for violence and permitted to commit crimes themselves, and on making false accusations about those who are NOT committing or paying for the crimes you are allegedly concerned about. If you don't want businesses damaged in some of these blue cities you claim to so love, then support keeping the police well-behaved.

(09-04-2020, 03:00 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 01:52 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Antifa is still serving it's purpose and causing all kinds of trouble and even forced the Democratic mayor of Portland to leave his home (condo located inside the xity) the other night. It's a good thing he's privileged and has another home to flee to and reside in these days. Evidently, the governor of Oregon doesn't view that as a big deal. I mean lives in a state mansion located in Salem with a detachment of state police and private security and the head of the Oregon National on speed dial. I wonder if the head of the national guard is an American believer (Trump supporter) or as warped and out of touch as him? I view it as typical for a liberal Democrat or Liberal puppet myself. 

Also, the Antifa guy with a BLM tattoo on his neck who murdered the so called evil right winger in cold blood is out on bail thanks to Liberal donations to create a Liberal slush fund to pay the bail of rioters who are caught breaking the law and he's  doing an interview on Vice (HBO documentary series) which you may want to watch to learn what one of your sides heroes has to say about murdering one of ours. Oh, I sure justice will be served and someone will find that piece of shit hero  yours floating in some river or hopefully  his head on a spike in front of some Democrats home or office or some rich Democratic supporters home or office. Fair is fair. Aren't you the one that's telling me words don't mean what they mean in the dictionary and the one flip flopping between me and the other liberal supporters. Sooner or later, the reddish Democrats are going to be forced to choose the side that more closely represents their beliefs and values these day.

I was wondering where you get your group affiliation information?  Last I knew, Antifa didn't issue official ID cards or that they would be hard to forge.  I go by motivation.  The Antifa people are against the KKK and Neo Nazi.  The Boogaloo Bois are trying to start violence, their boogaloo.  For some reason the red media likes to play games with affiliations and group membership.  Where did you get you affiliation from?

Edit:  Just stumbled on an interview as reported by CNN.  Apparently this guy is very much an Antifa sympathizer, but not a member of any organized Antifa group.  He supposedly answered violence with violence, responding to a knife wielding Trump follower attacking a friend.  Enough blame to go around?

(09-04-2020, 04:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Are the law enforcement people they're fighting with KKK and Neo Nazi's? Personally, I think they're trying to take over a city and prove at point to whoever cares or pays by wearing down a local police force that's restricted from brandishing and using their guns. Whoever they are, whatever their motivation be it good or bad, they're making the entire Democratic party look powerless and bad in front of Americans who don't live in a bubble. Hint...You can't with die hard Democratic - Progressive voters alone.

(09-04-2020, 12:16 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 11:53 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 12:59 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-02-2020, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: To be ruled by liberal elites would be to ruled by people who value fairness, democracy and equal opportunity for all. That's a lot better than your supposed American loop.

What amazes me is there are so many people online who live within your bubble. You are tools of the elites that value unfairness, authority and elitism.

You won't find many Americans who live in a bubble these days.

You are in a bubble.

You're right in a way. I'm in your bubble posting stuff mainly related to people outside your bubble.

(09-04-2020, 03:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 02:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And I hope some people see through the obvious racial bias of folks like you Classic Xer who have no concern over the USA turning into a police state, especially in black neighborhoods, but focus all your concern on keeping the police trained for violence and permitted to commit crimes themselves, and on making false accusations about those who are NOT committing or paying for the crimes you are allegedly concerned about. If you don't want businesses damaged in some of these blue cities you claim to so love, then support keeping the police well-behaved.

You must have missed my lack of concern about where you live turning into a police state because that's what you've been voting for, allowing and supporting for years. I hope posters are also able to read  "especially in black neighborhoods" and associate it with racial bias and understand/identify who wrote it and which side he's on. As I read further, I ask myself a question "since when have the crooks and criminals become more valuable/important than police and law enforcement and why is that?" I assume it has something to do with Democratic politics and its need for political alliances with unsavory groups of voters to keep itself in power.

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 02:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We on the blue side disagree with you about what are the important things. We think democracy, the environment, and equal opportunity for all are the important things. You think vigilantism, phony use of symbols, Reaganomics bullshit and xenophobia are the important things. I don't.

If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes and supporting the aristocratic/plutocratic system that you have either.

Quote: You'd be leaving the state like everyone else who can see the writing on the wall who know they've been removed/excluded from the political process and know they can't stop what they see coming by voting. You don't represent equal opportunity for all.  You represent equal outcomes for most, limited opportunity based on identity and belief and mainly race driven politics. America represents equal opportunity for all, freedom for all, blind justice and peace through strength vs weakness. Like I said, you better find a place to hide when America erupts and the majority want to see the Democrats punished. We're a couple months away from fate determining courses and history hasn't been kind to the groups on the wrong side of fate.

Quote:I think the American flag is important. I think the American way of life is important. I think the American Constitution is important. I think American jobs are important. I think American borders are important. I think American business is important. I think American law enforcement is important. I think the American Rule Of Law is important. Now, if you want to cling to an old tree that's past its prime and is going to die anyway because nothing that lives lives forever. Nature's cruel.

(09-04-2020, 11:28 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 03:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 02:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And I hope some people see through the obvious racial bias of folks like you Classic Xer who have no concern over the USA turning into a police state, especially in black neighborhoods, but focus all your concern on keeping the police trained for violence and permitted to commit crimes themselves, and on making false accusations about those who are NOT committing or paying for the crimes you are allegedly concerned about. If you don't want businesses damaged in some of these blue cities you claim to so love, then support keeping the police well-behaved.

You must have missed my lack of concern about where you live turning into a police state because that's what you've been voting for, allowing and supporting for years. I hope posters are also able to read  "especially in black neighborhoods" and associate it with racial bias and understand/identify who wrote it and which side he's on. As I read further, I ask myself a question "since when have the crooks and criminals become more valuable/important than police and law enforcement and why is that?" I assume it has something to do with Democratic politics and its need for political alliances with unsavory groups of voters to keep itself in power.

It seems we live in a police state pretty much wherever we live. Progressives keep trying to put restraints on police, but the police culture seems to cross all boundaries and city lines. The BLM movement may bring change to some blue cities. It is the only thing that will.

Democrats don't make alliances with unsavory groups, and Democrats in cities and Biden at the national level have and would support law enforcement. The best support now is to make reforms so police don't kill innocent people. Law enforcement does not need to be unjust, racist and/or illegal to carry out its work.

There is no doubt, unless you live in a bubble, that the main problem with police misconduct today happens in black neighborhoods. Or, what planet did you say you live on, now?

(09-04-2020, 02:05 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Well, that's the main problem that we get to see and hear the most about the days. Outside the Progressive bubble, the Americans understand that cops representing all races and crooks/ criminals of all races have violent run ins /dangerous situations that occur and result in the death of both of them and they also understand that some accidents/improper use of force  will occur with the police from time to time as well.

(09-04-2020, 02:05 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 11:28 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 03:37 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 02:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: And I hope some people see through the obvious racial bias of folks like you Classic Xer who have no concern over the USA turning into a police state, especially in black neighborhoods, but focus all your concern on keeping the police trained for violence and permitted to commit crimes themselves, and on making false accusations about those who are NOT committing or paying for the crimes you are allegedly concerned about. If you don't want businesses damaged in some of these blue cities you claim to so love, then support keeping the police well-behaved.

You must have missed my lack of concern about where you live turning into a police state because that's what you've been voting for, allowing and supporting for years. I hope posters are also able to read  "especially in black neighborhoods" and associate it with racial bias and understand/identify who wrote it and which side he's on. As I read further, I ask myself a question "since when have the crooks and criminals become more valuable/important than police and law enforcement and why is that?" I assume it has something to do with Democratic politics and its need for political alliances with unsavory groups of voters to keep itself in power.

It seems we live in a police state pretty much wherever we live. Progressives keep trying to put restraints on police, but the police culture seems to cross all boundaries and city lines. The BLM movement may bring change to some blue cities. It is the only thing that will.

Democrats don't make alliances with unsavory groups, and Democrats in cities and Biden at the national level have and would support law enforcement. The best support now is to make reforms so police don't kill innocent people. Law enforcement does not need to be unjust, racist and/or illegal to carry out its work.

There is no doubt, unless you live in a bubble, that the main problem with police misconduct today happens in black neighborhoods. Or, what planet did you say you live on, now?

Well, that's the main problem that we get to see and hear the most about the days. Outside the Progressive bubble, the Americans understand that cops representing all races and crooks/ criminals of all races have violent run ins /dangerous situations that occur and result in the death of both of them and they also understand that some accidents/improper use of force  will occur with the police from time to time as well.

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes...

(09-04-2020, 11:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes...

Another note about this statement, again.

We Democrats and progressives do need the votes of disadvantaged groups. So we are careful to include concern for their interests and policies that benefit them in order to shore up their votes for us. As I said before, politics involves making alliances and coalitions, especially party politics. And since progressives of all races and creeds naturally believe and agree with justice and the rights of people against power, people in disadvantaged groups are our natural allies and colleagues, and are a natural and valued part of the progressive party and/or faction. You call it purchasing and trading for votes, which implies you don't want disadvantaged groups in your coalition, and don't offer any concern for their interests or policies that benefit them. So instead you and those on your side of the aisle cater to those who scapegoat, fear or resent these groups. Seems a natural trade-off, although not a pleasant and I hope not a lasting one.

(09-04-2020, 11:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes...

Another note about this statement, again.

We Democrats and progressives do need the votes of disadvantaged groups. So we are careful to include concern for their interests and policies that benefit them in order to shore up their votes for us. As I said before, politics involves making alliances and coalitions, especially party politics. And since progressives of all races and creeds naturally believe and agree with justice and the rights of people against power, people in disadvantaged groups are our natural allies and colleagues, and are a natural and valued part of the progressive party and/or faction. You call it purchasing and trading for votes, which implies you don't want disadvantaged groups in your coalition, and don't offer any concern for their interests or policies that benefit them. So instead you and those on your side of the aisle cater to those who scapegoat, fear or resent these groups. Seems a natural trade-off, although not a pleasant and I hope not a lasting one.

(09-05-2020, 12:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 11:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes...

Another note about this statement, again.

We Democrats and progressives do need the votes of disadvantaged groups. So we are careful to include concern for their interests and policies that benefit them in order to shore up their votes for us. As I said before, politics involves making alliances and coalitions, especially party politics. And since progressives of all races and creeds naturally believe and agree with justice and the rights of people against power, people in disadvantaged groups are our natural allies and colleagues, and are a natural and valued part of the progressive party and/or faction. You call it purchasing and trading for votes, which implies you don't want disadvantaged groups in your coalition, and don't offer any concern for their interests or policies that benefit them. So instead you and those on your side of the aisle cater to those who scapegoat, fear or resent these groups. Seems a natural trade-off, although not a pleasant and I hope not a lasting one.

I would add the conservatives also trade positions on the issues for votes.  They have always been the party of the Robber Barons.  The Robber Barons have wealth, but not that many votes.  They have to take up populist positions in order to survive.  They have an advantage in accepting 'campaign finance contributions', but they need votes.

Thus, they became the strong on military party when Mao won in China and Truman was unwilling to start a land war in Asia.  They became the racist party when LBJ allied with MLK for the black vote, going with the civil rights legislation and the war on poverty.  As there turned out to be more dedicated racists than border line poor workers, this ended the progressive era.  

We will see if that last it remains true in the modern era.  The Neo Cons already went down when the Iraq War went proxy insurgent.  We will have to see how the racists do. 

It is just a question of which groups the party seeks to attract.  With nukes, insurgent wars and non violent change, it is less beneficial to be the party of using force to get your way.  Too many people have realized that boots on the ground are a bad idea.  When a bunch of people are protesting racial violent policing, it is less effective to be the party of racism and violence.  They can continue to try to attract votes by placing the race card.  Will they succeed?

But to prove this to Classic it will have to become painfully obvious.  He is obsessed with violence, thus sees violence as solving all problems.  Not true anymore.

(09-05-2020, 01:20 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The Neo Cons are still around but no longer in charge as far as foreign policy.

(09-05-2020, 01:20 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Trump is committed to peace through strength or walk lightly and carry a big stick.

(09-05-2020, 01:20 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Right now, I'd have to say that the Democratic is the more racist and more lawless and more violent of the two parties.

(09-05-2020, 01:20 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Granted, the American right is mainly idle and hasn't turned to violence and begun supporting violence yet.

(09-05-2020, 12:40 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 11:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes...

Another note about this statement, again.

We Democrats and progressives do need the votes of disadvantaged groups. So we are careful to include concern for their interests and policies that benefit them in order to shore up their votes for us. As I said before, politics involves making alliances and coalitions, especially party politics. And since progressives of all races and creeds naturally believe and agree with justice and the rights of people against power, people in disadvantaged groups are our natural allies and colleagues, and are a natural and valued part of the progressive party and/or faction. You call it purchasing and trading for votes, which implies you don't want disadvantaged groups in your coalition, and don't offer any concern for their interests or policies that benefit them. So instead you and those on your side of the aisle cater to those who scapegoat, fear or resent these groups. Seems a natural trade-off, although not a pleasant and I hope not a lasting one.

I would add the conservatives also trade positions on the issues for votes.  They have always been the party of the Robber Barons.  The Robber Barons have wealth, but not that many votes.  They have to take up populist positions in order to survive.  They have an advantage in accepting 'campaign finance contributions', but they need votes.

Thus, they became the strong on military party when Mao won in China and Truman was unwilling to start a land war in Asia.  They became the racist party when LBJ allied with MLK for the black vote, going with the civil rights legislation and the war on poverty.  As there turned out to be more dedicated racists than border line poor workers, this ended the progressive era.  

We will see if that last it remains true in the modern era.  The Neo Cons already went down when the Iraq War went proxy insurgent.  We will have to see how the racists do. 

It is just a question of which groups the party seeks to attract.  With nukes, insurgent wars and non violent change, it is less beneficial to be the party of using force to get your way.  Too many people have realized that boots on the ground are a bad idea.  When a bunch of people are protesting racial violent policing, it is less effective to be the party of racism and violence.  They can continue to try to attract votes by placing the race card.  Will they succeed?

But to prove this to Classic it will have to become painfully obvious.  He is obsessed with violence, thus sees violence as solving all problems.  Not true anymore.

(09-05-2020, 12:41 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 11:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes...

Another note about this statement, again.

We Democrats and progressives do need the votes of disadvantaged groups. So we are careful to include concern for their interests and policies that benefit them in order to shore up their votes for us. As I said before, politics involves making alliances and coalitions, especially party politics. And since progressives of all races and creeds naturally believe and agree with justice and the rights of people against power, people in disadvantaged groups are our natural allies and colleagues, and are a natural and valued part of the progressive party and/or faction. You call it purchasing and trading for votes, which implies you don't want disadvantaged groups in your coalition, and don't offer any concern for their interests or policies that benefit them. So instead you and those on your side of the aisle cater to those who scapegoat, fear or resent these groups. Seems a natural trade-off, although not a pleasant and I hope not a lasting one.

So, are you using your own tax dollars to purchase and trade for their votes or are you using our tax dollars as well? I don't mind if liberal Democrats and progressive use their own money (tax dollars) to purchase the votes and sustain the votes that they need sustain themselves and keep themselves in power. Yes, its a natural trade off that the country ( the Americans outside the liberal Democratic/ progressive bubble ) are becoming more and more aware of these days.

(09-04-2020, 12:04 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-03-2020, 02:59 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We on the blue side disagree with you about what are the important things. We think democracy, the environment, and equal opportunity for all are the important things. You think vigilantism, phony use of symbols, Reaganomics bullshit and xenophobia are the important things. I don't.

If you valued democracy, you wouldn't be placing the integrity of it at risk by purchasing and trading for votes and supporting the aristocratic/plutocratic system that you have either. You'd be leaving the state like everyone else who can see the writing on the wall who know they've been removed/excluded from the political process and know they can't stop what they see coming by voting. You don't represent equal opportunity for all.  You represent equal outcomes for most, limited opportunity based on identity and belief and mainly race driven politics. America represents equal opportunity for  all, freedom for all, blind justice and peace through strength vs weakness. Like I said, you better find a place to hide when America erupts and the majority want to see the Democrats punished. We're a couple months away from fate determining courses and history hasn't been kind to the groups on the wrong side of fate.

Quote:I think the American flag is important. I think the American way of life is important. I think the American Constitution is important. I think American jobs are important. I think American borders are important. I think American business is important. I think American law enforcement is important. I think the American Rule Of Law is important. Now, if you want to cling to an old tree that's past its prime and is going to die anyway because nothing that lives lives forever. Nature's cruel.