(09-16-2020, 09:58 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 09:21 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 08:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I know where the bulk of our food in our grocery stores come from these days. Yep. The Democrats have gotten away with playing both sides for over twenty years now. I also agree that their ability to do it without seeing/feeling the consequences is most likely over as well.

Just what the hell does that mean?  This has nothing to do with Democrats or anyone other than the Trump cronies who want their profits, come hell or high water.  There is no reason that the production lines at these meat processing plants can't be a lot safer than they are, and the workers provided with basic protective gear ... except profits.  It's all about squeezing every last penny out of the workforce, and if they die, well too bad.

I hope you treat your workers better than that.

How would you bring cheaply run food processing plants that are more or less old fashioned and outdated by today's new COVID19 standards up to speed as far as square footage and in compliance without causing major disruptions in production, output and causing food shortages? Bitching and blaming others is easy work dude that any idiot or moron or imbecile ( whichever term applies) is free and able to do and probably make a living while doing it for those on the Left (the Democratic side) these days.

(09-16-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 07:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 03:42 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 02:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 01:31 PM)David Horn Wrote: The outrages are so common and pervasive that we're immune to them.  A prime example: Trump used a draft written by one of several giant meat processing concerns to mandate meat production in the middle of the COVID-19 pandemic.  The processors were told to accommodate their workers health needs but did nothing. Over 200 workers died of COVID, and Trump's ever-vigilant OSHA responded by fining the processors $29,000.  That's $29,000 not apiece, as measly as that would be, but in total.  Jointly, the plants generate $55 Billion annually.

You talk like food production and maintaining an adequate food supply isn't viewed as essential as the COVID19 crisis seems to be to you and those on the Left   politically.

No, I'm arguing that letting them get away with murder is criminal, in and of itself. More to the point, this sends a huge signal that business, especially big business, is immune to the laws as written.

Mistreating workers has been common for so long that anything to the contrary would be newsworthy. But outright killing them, by seeing what's happening and doing absolutely nothing about it, should get some people serious jail time, not a petty fine.  You want the swamp drained?  Start there!

I'm glad that you're not in charge, I have no doubt that Americans be fighting/ killing each other over food by now. I want the swamp drained and I understand that the Left and it's Democratic allies are about the only ones standing in the way of progress.

You don't even know what the swamp is. You don't even know WHAT a swamp is. You certainly can't recognize one when you see one.

(09-17-2020, 09:26 AM)David Horn Wrote: First, running a meat processing plant is outside my area of expertise, but it shouldn't be outside the capability of the huge multinational companies that own them.  

Second, this is not new news.  I blame a lot of OSHA people over decades for their piss-poor handling of a problem identified by Upton Sinclair in 1905.

Third, this was not a food crisis, unless getting all the meat you want whenever you want it is considered crisis material.  

and Fourth, cheap meat is not worth the deaths of the people who make it possible.

(09-17-2020, 10:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 07:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 03:42 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 02:49 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You talk like food production and maintaining an adequate food supply isn't viewed as essential as the COVID19 crisis seems to be to you and those on the Left   politically.

No, I'm arguing that letting them get away with murder is criminal, in and of itself. More to the point, this sends a huge signal that business, especially big business, is immune to the laws as written.

Mistreating workers has been common for so long that anything to the contrary would be newsworthy. But outright killing them, by seeing what's happening and doing absolutely nothing about it, should get some people serious jail time, not a petty fine.  You want the swamp drained?  Start there!

I'm glad that you're not in charge, I have no doubt that Americans be fighting/ killing each other over food by now. I want the swamp drained and I understand that the Left and it's Democratic allies are about the only ones standing in the way of progress.

You don't even know what the swamp is. You don't even know WHAT a swamp is. You certainly can't recognize one when you see one.

I've seen my share of swamps over the years.

(09-16-2020, 09:21 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 08:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 07:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 07:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 03:42 PM)David Horn Wrote: No, I'm arguing that letting them get away with murder is criminal, in and of itself. More to the point, this sends a huge signal that business, especially big business, is immune to the laws as written.

Mistreating workers has been common for so long that anything to the contrary would be newsworthy. But outright killing them, by seeing what's happening and doing absolutely nothing about it, should get some people serious jail time, not a petty fine.  You want the swamp drained?  Start there!

I'm glad that you're not in charge, I have no doubt that Americans be fighting/ killing each other over food by now. I want the swamp drained and I understand that the Left and it's Democratic allies are about the only ones standing in the way of progress.

...and what is wrong with ensuring that people who do essential work as in food-processing places can expect to be paid well enough to be able to not be in danger from COVID-19? How can we be sure that there won't be a SARS-3 that causes a similarly-deadly COVID-23 plague? We have gotten away with doing much on the cheap for a couple of decades. That may be over. The people who do this work, and much of it is done in rural areas, are not expendable. 

By the way -- your food does not originate in a supermarket.

I know where the bulk of our food in our grocery stores come from these days. Yep. The Democrats have gotten away with playing both sides for over twenty years now. I also agree that their ability to do it without seeing/feeling the consequences is most likely over as well.

Just what the hell does that mean?  This has nothing to do with Democrats or anyone other than the Trump cronies who want their profits, come hell or high water.  There is no reason that the production lines at these meat processing plants can't be a lot safer than they are, and the workers provided with basic protective gear ... except profits.  It's all about squeezing every last penny out of the workforce, and if they die, well too bad.

I hope you treat your workers better than that.

(09-17-2020, 04:42 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: ...I expected him to come up with the obvious retort that farmers grow the crops and that farmers and ranchers raise the livestock in places  outside the sight of the urban skyline, and that people actually work in dairies, slaughterhouses, and food-processing places.  The government role in the Department of Agriculture is often to ensure that people having some tough times are able at the least to get food.  The money spend on food goes right back into the economy through food retailers. 

It's up to us all to  ensure that people are not abused or exploited just because we need something and want it cheap, the cheapness depending upon people being exploited severely. We have gotten away with doing much on the cheap, and if we are to have a good social order we will be unable to do certain things on the cheap.  

So food will cost more -- then raise the allotment for food stamps.

(09-17-2020, 04:05 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 10:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 07:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 03:42 PM)David Horn Wrote: No, I'm arguing that letting them get away with murder is criminal, in and of itself. More to the point, this sends a huge signal that business, especially big business, is immune to the laws as written.

Mistreating workers has been common for so long that anything to the contrary would be newsworthy. But outright killing them, by seeing what's happening and doing absolutely nothing about it, should get some people serious jail time, not a petty fine.  You want the swamp drained?  Start there!

I'm glad that you're not in charge, I have no doubt that Americans be fighting/ killing each other over food by now. I want the swamp drained and I understand that the Left and it's Democratic allies are about the only ones standing in the way of progress.

You don't even know what the swamp is. You don't even know WHAT a swamp is. You certainly can't recognize one when you see one.

I've seen my share of swamps over the years.

Not the kind under discussion; you can't see them.

(09-16-2020, 12:16 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-15-2020, 11:33 AM)Mikebert Wrote:

(09-09-2020, 01:57 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: That's what you thought but you still had to ask? Well, I'd still leave you hanging from a limb and I'd still leave you to fend for yourself or leave you to mercy of some group of Democrats.

You position makes no sense.You were espousing "taking things" from Blue America, which sounds like theft to me. So I was ruling out that as a possible explanation. You apparently cannot articulate your argument, from which I conclude you don't really have one. Your complaints are more emotional or perhaps spiritual than concrete, although you seem to prefer a concrete solution--civil war--that is, killing people and taking their stuff.

We are in a creedal passion period or in S&H terms, a certain kind of social moment. Such periods have sometimes led to major conflagrations: the 19th century US Civil War, the 17th century English Civil War, the 16th century German Peasants War. Is that really your preferred solution?

Well, as every knows, I'm not blessed with great writing skills. Do you happen live in a Democratic stronghold? If you do then you are at much greater risk than me and are more likely to find yourself at odds or find yourself in direct conflict with a Democratic group than me these days.

(09-18-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 04:42 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: ...I expected him to come up with the obvious retort that farmers grow the crops and that farmers and ranchers raise the livestock in places  outside the sight of the urban skyline, and that people actually work in dairies, slaughterhouses, and food-processing places.  The government role in the Department of Agriculture is often to ensure that people having some tough times are able at the least to get food.  The money spend on food goes right back into the economy through food retailers. 

It's up to us all to  ensure that people are not abused or exploited just because we need something and want it cheap, the cheapness depending upon people being exploited severely. We have gotten away with doing much on the cheap, and if we are to have a good social order we will be unable to do certain things on the cheap.  

So food will cost more -- then raise the allotment for food stamps.

Why would you expect this from me? As a general rule, I don't waste time teaching people who should be educated enough know better by now. I tend to write them off and  leave them to their own fate.

(09-18-2020, 12:19 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-18-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 04:42 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: ...I expected him to come up with the obvious retort that farmers grow the crops and that farmers and ranchers raise the livestock in places  outside the sight of the urban skyline, and that people actually work in dairies, slaughterhouses, and food-processing places.  The government role in the Department of Agriculture is often to ensure that people having some tough times are able at the least to get food.  The money spend on food goes right back into the economy through food retailers. 

It's up to us all to  ensure that people are not abused or exploited just because we need something and want it cheap, the cheapness depending upon people being exploited severely. We have gotten away with doing much on the cheap, and if we are to have a good social order we will be unable to do certain things on the cheap.  

So food will cost more -- then raise the allotment for food stamps.

Why would you expect this from me? As a general rule, I don't waste time teaching people who should be educated enough know better by now. I tend to write them off and  leave them to their own fate.

Because we have gotten accustomed to higher costs appropriate for such concerns as the environment and public safety. In cars, we have all sorts of improvements from collapsible steering wheels to seat belts to airbags to padded dashboards to make cars safer in crashes. We mandate safety seats for infants and other small children. (If I ever get another dog I will have a safety seat for it so that it does not hit its head onto the dashboard as it did when I made a panic stop to avoid hitting some children. Poor doggie, and that dear little doggie was never quite the same after that). We have catalytic converters (added cost) and in the 1970s and later those precluded what was then leaded gasoline... well, getting rid of the leaded gasoline has had some very positive effects, such as vastly improving learning abilities and impulse control (both of which environmental lead can wreck) in the "tenderloin" districts of some cities. You know how that went: the closer that one got to the core cities where the jobs are, the heavier the lead concentration was, and the more that kids were exposed to lead, the more likely they were to fail in school and become the dangerous criminals that used to be a legitimate fear as late as the early 1990's.

Would you approve of slavery if that made the material in your clothes cheaper? As late as 1860 (the blockade of the secessionist states)  slavery did that. That is over. People suffering to make things easier or cheaper for others is a bad cause. Making some slight sacrifices for the dignity of others is a worthy way. 

OK -- here is something that to which many conservatives might relate. The suicide rate among participants in the pornography industry is very high. To be sure, lots of troubled people enter it. Do you buy the stuff? 

The life expectancy of even a Playboy Playmate of the Month ™ is decidedly below the national average for adult women. And, yes, Playboy is rather genteel smut, the late Hugh Hefner introducing men to the concept, if not reality, of pornography without guilt. That is the most genteel porn, as opposed to the hard-core stuff such as depictions of gang-rapes (ask the conservative Warren Dew about that).

A pattern that I found is that an unusually-high number of former Playmates have turned completely away from the fake glitter of porn, even turning to Born Again Christianity as a full repudiation of it. Those are not so troubled, statistically, as the others. Maybe there are some 'successful' ones who  go on to finding legitimate talents or become trophy wives of rich husbands (the latter not a feminist model, but whatever it takes to save oneself from a life of despair is worth it, and giving up bad habits such as drugs and alcoholism is worth the cost. 

Question, Classic X'er -- do you buy porn? It is not simply an economic transaction when participants are hurt.

(09-18-2020, 01:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 04:05 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 10:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 07:26 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm glad that you're not in charge, I have no doubt that Americans be fighting/ killing each other over food by now. I want the swamp drained and I understand that the Left and it's Democratic allies are about the only ones standing in the way of progress.

You don't even know what the swamp is. You don't even know WHAT a swamp is. You certainly can't recognize one when you see one.

I've seen my share of swamps over the years.

Not the kind under discussion; you can't see them.

Same creepy critters that just happen to be humans instead.

(09-18-2020, 02:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-18-2020, 01:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 04:05 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 10:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-16-2020, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: You don't even know what the swamp is. You don't even know WHAT a swamp is. You certainly can't recognize one when you see one.

I've seen my share of swamps over the years.

Not the kind under discussion; you can't see them.

Same creepy critters that just happen to be humans instead.

And you don't know who they are. You cannot recognize the human swamp when you see it. You mistake the swamp for the forest and the forest for the swamp.

(09-18-2020, 02:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We need to defeat Trump and the Republicans so badly that they are sent home to reconsider their ideas and ideology. We need to defeat them from now on, and so badly that Democrats no longer feel compelled to compromise with them and defer to their power.

(09-18-2020, 08:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I understand Ruth Ginsberg died.  Fortunately for us liberals, senate majority leader McConnell has established himself that he is a strong man of principle, and that a supreme courts seat should not be decided in an election year.  He just will not schedule a...

Never mind.

I guess one more thing to do in the never again phase of the crisis.  Make it so that if the Senate does not confirm or act within a reasonable amount of time, the nomination automatically succeeds?

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-18-2020, 08:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I understand Ruth Ginsberg died.  Fortunately for us liberals, senate majority leader McConnell has established himself that he is a strong man of principle, and that a supreme courts seat should not be decided in an election year.  He just will not schedule a...

Never mind.

I guess one more thing to do in the never again phase of the crisis.  Make it so that if the Senate does not confirm or act within a reasonable amount of time, the nomination automatically succeeds?

If you could go back and slap the Obama Administration and Harry Reid upside the head and instill the  value of respect/ teach respect the old fashioned way like it was probably taught to you by you're old man if you were lucky enough to have an old man who wasn't afraid to man handle and  scare the shit (pampered arrogance) out of you like mine. In short, if the Liberal women and their docile men ain't up to par with the equals (the men and women who are more or less equals on the other side. You can pretty much guarantee there's going to be a parting of ways and the only debate is over the means that will be used to accomplish it. You and I will be parting ways soon enough the natural way. RBG was right, we won't see another strong independent judge/woman like her again because there aren't any women like her left to pick because the Democratic party has moved away from merit in favor of race and gender and younger age groups. If you're lucky, you'll end up on the side that values Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and you're lucky that there is a wing of the Republican party that's on your side that's there to fill the void. I guess that's the best that we can do to come out of this with the bulk of the country intact and functioning as a country.

(09-18-2020, 02:35 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-18-2020, 02:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-18-2020, 01:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 04:05 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-17-2020, 10:32 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I've seen my share of swamps over the years.

Not the kind under discussion; you can't see them.

Same creepy critters that just happen to be humans instead.

And you don't know who they are. You cannot recognize the human swamp when you see it. You mistake the swamp for the forest and the forest for the swamp.

You don't think I'm able to recognize a snake or weasel when I see one? Are you any further than you were with me than you were the day we met? So, where am I now and how much Democratic  resistance exists between the two of us compared to then   today? In real life terms, I'm in your face right now and there isn't a Democrat that's worth a shit to us that  exists today? I mean, the Democrats that exist are either bought or man made these days? You know its true and you already know what's coming too.

(09-19-2020, 01:08 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(09-18-2020, 08:06 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I understand Ruth Ginsberg died.  Fortunately for us liberals, senate majority leader McConnell has established himself that he is a strong man of principle, and that a supreme courts seat should not be decided in an election year.  He just will not schedule a...

Never mind.

I guess one more thing to do in the never again phase of the crisis.  Make it so that if the Senate does not confirm or act within a reasonable amount of time, the nomination automatically succeeds?

If you could go back and slap the Obama Administration and Harry Reid upside the head and instill the  value of respect/ teach respect the old fashioned way like it was probably taught to you by you're old man if you were lucky enough to have an old man who wasn't afraid to man handle and  scare the shit (pampered arrogance) out of you like mine. In short, if the Liberal women and their docile men ain't up to par with the equals (the men and women who are more or less equals on the other side. You can pretty much guarantee there's going to be a parting of ways and the only debate is over the means that will be used to accomplish it. You and I will be parting ways soon enough the natural way. RBG was right, we won't see another strong independent judge/woman like her again because there aren't any women like her left to pick because the Democratic party has moved away from merit in favor of race and gender and younger age groups. If you're lucky, you'll end up on the side that values Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and you're lucky that there is a wing of the Republican party that's on your side that's there to fill the void. I guess that's the best that we can do to come out of this with the bulk of the country intact and functioning as a country.